D&D 5E Have the designers lost interest in short rests?

[Charlaquin]

A few years ago I got rid of short rests and just tripled all short rest abilities and let them operate on a long rest. It's basically similar to others who allowed PCs to get 2 short rests per long rest. This left resting for HP as almost the only use of a short rest and that was shortened to 10 minutes (the length of an old school turn).

I've yet to notice anything detrimental to the game and it made my life easier when it came to designing encounters from one to one dozen per long rest.

It’s a pretty reasonable change to make in terms of inter-class balance. Personally though, I prefer there being a mix of short and long rest based resources. If you follow the adventuring day guidelines to the letter, it shouldn’t make any noticeable difference, but I for one like the wobble. Some days long rest classes perform better, some days short rest classes shine. I think that’s a good thing for the game as long as the delta isn’t too extreme. If you get somewhere UB the ballpark of 4 to 8 encounters between long rests (whether that be because you do that many encounters in a day or because you change the time a long rest takes) and 1 to 3 short rests between those encounters, the power balance has an appeasing dynamism without anyone ever feeling useless. YMMV though.

 

[Bacon Bits]

You know, this calculation exposes what a significant nerf the change to Bladesong is if the DM follows the adventuring day guidelines. From once per encounter to once every three encounters at first level, growing to once per encounter by 17th level. Harsh.

Eh, I think you get significant diminishing returns on the number of uses per day. When I play as a barbarian, I find that 2 rages a day feels very cramped, but 3 per day is really quite comfortable. When there are more than 3-4 combats in a day you start to reach the point that there isn't enough encounter budget to make the encounters challenging enough to really require expending that resource every time.

That said, I don't really like that song of defense still requires bladesinging even after this change. It's quite an expensive ability as it is.

 

[Charlaquin]

When there are more than 3-4 combats in a day you start to reach the point that there isn't enough encounter budget to make the encounters challenging enough to really require expending that resource every time.

That’s by design. The math favors the players to win even if they don’t expend any limited resources; spending those resources just improves their chances of victory.

 

[Bacon Bits]

That’s by design. The math favors the players to win even if they don’t expend any limited resources; spending those resources just improves their chances of victory.

I know. That's why I'm saying that it's not a significant loss to have bladesong 4+ per day instead of 2 per short rest because of that dynamic. I don't think it's a fair criticism to call it a harsh change, especially when referencing high level. It's harsh from level 2 to level 4, which is when being a wizard is already maximally harsh.

 

[Charlaquin]

I know. That's why I'm saying that it's not a significant loss to have bladesong 4+ per day instead of 2 per short rest because of that dynamic.

4 per day isn’t a huge loss compared to 2 per short rest. Only 2 fewer per day. But it takes until 9th level to get to that point and it’s still weaker than what they formerly got at only 2nd level.

I don't think it's a fair criticism to call it a harsh change, especially when referencing high level. It's harsh from level 2 to level 4, which is when being a wizard is already maximally harsh.

I guess it depends how you define “harsh.” Is it likely to get them killed? Not at all. Is it a significant hit to the subclass’s power? I’d say so.

 

[Azzy]

That sounds like 4th Edition! Do you want more 4th Edition??!!??

While I have many things against 4e, it did do some things better than previous editions (fighters and monster-building are probably tops). While I wouldn't want to use the same structure for all classes, like 4e did, I would be happy the classes to have both long and short rest features that are compelling enough for the primarily long rest recharging classes to want to engage in short rests.

 

[Azzy]

Most classes do have something tied to a short rest, the problem isn't that some classes lack something tied to short rests so much as there are some classes where the bulk of their power is tied to them & if they are not carefully managed those classes either under perform or significantly over perform.

Few of the primarily long-rest-centered classes have short rest features are actually compelling enough for the player to want to take a short rest (druids have wild shape, clerics and paladinds have Channel Divinity, but beyond that—it's all at high level or an inconsequential feature).

 

[tetrasodium]

Few of the primarily long-rest-centered classes have short rest features are actually compelling enough for the player to want to take a short rest (druids have wild shape, clerics and paladinds have Channel Divinity, but beyond that—it's all at high level or an inconsequential feature).

Or like natural recovery and arcane recovery wisely limited to one per long rest because they knew unrestricted spell slot recovery on short rests was bad for health of the game when they went full munchkin and gave unresstricted short rest spell slot recovery to warlock anyways

 

[Flamestrike]

Few of the primarily long-rest-centered classes have short rest features are actually compelling enough for the player to want to take a short rest (druids have wild shape, clerics and paladinds have Channel Divinity, but beyond that—it's all at high level or an inconsequential feature).

Everyone needs to heal.

 

[Asisreo]

Few of the primarily long-rest-centered classes have short rest features are actually compelling enough for the player to want to take a short rest (druids have wild shape, clerics and paladinds have Channel Divinity, but beyond that—it's all at high level or an inconsequential feature).

Out of the 12 original classes, 8 of them have valuable features that recover on a short rest in the lower levels.

Font of Inspiration (bard 5), Channel Divinity (Cleric 2 & Paladin 3), Wild Shape (Druid 2), Second Wind & Action Surge (Fighter 1&2), Ki (monk 2), Spell Slots (Warlock 1 & Wizard 2).

Of the 4 left over, 3 of them have short rest uses at either fairly or extremely higher levels.

Relentless Rage (Barbarian 11), Stroke of Luck (Rogue 20), Sorcerous Restoration (sorcerer 20).

Short rests are important for the majority of classes, even wizards, clerics, and paladins. They shouldn't avoid short rests if they have the opportunity to take them.