D&D General have we had a player race of undead?

[Carlsen Chris]

Undead from birth is a contradiction.

Boring. This is fantasy after all. It can be whatever you want. It could be as simple as two undead loving each other very much and having a baby together. Why not.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

desire for action without consequences.

A pretty good definition of a monster.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Boring. This is fantasy after all. It can be whatever you want. It could be as simple as two undead loving each other very much and having a baby together. Why not.

Reproduction is a characteristic of living things. How are they undead, rather than simply not-dead?

 

[Vaalingrade]

A pretty good definition of a monster.

"I want to eat fresh, hot pizza without burning my mouth."

"Help, police!"

 

[Vaalingrade]

Reproduction is a characteristic of living things. How are they undead, rather than simply not-dead?

Self-Locomotion is also a characteristic of living things.

Undead play by their own rules.

 

[Voadam]

Reproduction is a characteristic of living things. How are they undead, rather than simply not-dead?

I believe you meant birth specifically here but your phrasing struck me as particularly off for D&D.

Possibly a majority of D&D undead specifically reproduce and create more undead through spawning. Vampires, Wraiths, Wights, Shadows. In older editions Ghouls and Spectres. It is one of their big horrific characteristics that is not uncommon for D&D undead.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Reproduction is a characteristic of living things. How are they undead, rather than simply not-dead?

I suppose they stop being undead and become unlife, like how life became more than just chemistry and pseudo-life like viruses?

I believe you meant birth specifically here but your phrasing struck me as particularly off for D&D.

Possibly a majority of D&D undead specifically reproduce and create more undead through spawning. Vampires, Wraiths, Wights, Shadows. In older editions Ghouls and Spectres. It is one of their big horrific characteristics that is not uncommon for D&D undead.

undead are like viruses they need something already built to make more of itself, these jump to cellular life they can build more of themselves

 

[Vaalingrade]

Viruses: also a thing that reproduces that isn't alive.

 

[MGibster]

where in mythology is undead pure hate the living kill on sight?

The Sumerians believed in a rather bleak afterlife where everyone, regardless of their actions in life, was consigned to an eternity of misery eating and drinking nothing but dust. In The Descent of Ishtar into the Underworld, when the gatekeeper refuses to open the gate for Ishtar to enter, she threatens to destroy the gate and "lead up the dead, that they may eat the living" if he does not allow her entry. He lets her in, because the destruction of the gate would be disasterous.

There's certainly a place for more benevolent behavior from the formerly living. In Roshambo, they summon the ghost of a slaim samurai to testify on his own murder, Hamlet's father tasks him with avenging his murder, and the ghosts of Christmas past, present, and future seem to genuinely haver Scrooge's best interest in mind as well as concern for the lives he can affect.

 

[MGibster]

God, I hate zombie ghouls--they are freaking ghouls, Romero-clones-- fiction. They're such garbage monsters you have to start with them already having won so you can explain how an animal dumber than a lemming killed off an animal known for its automatic weapons.

I used to feel the same way, but then I saw the response many of my fellow Americans had to COVID, refusing basic safety measures like social distancing and mask wearing, and uddenly the Romero zombie apocalypse became much more believable.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I used to feel the same way, but then I saw the response many of my fellow Americans had to COVID, refusing basic safety measures like social distancing and mask wearing, and uddenly the Romero zombie apocalypse became much more believable.

Yes, but the second people have half an excuse to shoot, stab, chainsaw human-shaped things with no repercussions? (the point of zombie media) no more zombies.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Self-Locomotion is also a characteristic of living things.

It's something undead are pretty good at too.

Undead play by their own rules.

What rules? What is it that makes undead different from the living? Just a word written in the creature type line?

 

[Vaalingrade]

What rules? What is it that makes undead different from the living? Just a word written in the creature type line?

Different power source.

They're powered by negative energy while life is powered by positive. It means they don't tend to need the same biomechanical action living beings do. That doesn't preclude undead from having their own means of constructing new versions of themselves internally.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Different power source.

They're powered by negative energy while life is powered by positive. It means they don't tend to need the same biomechanical action living beings do. That doesn't preclude undead from having their own means of constructing new versions of themselves internally.

What does that MEAN? There are lots of different kinds of living things, they are not all powered by "the same biomechanical action". If it walks like a living thing and quacks like a living thing it is a living thing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

What does that MEAN? There are lots of different kinds of living things, they are not all powered by "the same biomechanical action". If it walks like a living thing and quacks like a living thing it is a living thing.

Unless it's a virus.

See, there's actually a number of characteristics science requires to define life (a lot of which were added to prevent fire from counting as a living thing). Per Study.com:

1. Reproduction - For something to be considered alive, it must be able to reproduce and create offspring.
2. Heredity - Heredity is the ability to pass on genetic material (DNA) from parent to offspring. This can be in the form of phenotypic traits (the way a living thing looks on the outside) and genotypic traits (the actual genetic code that determines how something behaves and looks).
3. Cellular Organization - All living things are composed of one or more cells.
4. Growth and Development - All organisms develop over time to become more physically and mentally mature.
5. Adaptation Through Evolution - Every living thing has evolved at some point in time, and continues to do so in order to adapt to an everchanging environment.
6. Response to Stimuli - Living things respond to stimuli in their environment.
7. Homeostasis - Homeostasis is a living thing's ability to maintain stable internal factors, such as blood pressure, body temperature (thermoregulation), and water balance within cells.
8. Metabolism - An organism must use chemical reactions to process and/or use resources from the environment in order to continue functioning.

So pretty much all undead already hit 3, 6, and 7.

There's really no reason they can't also do 1 and still be comfortable considered Not Alive since fire does 1,4*,6,7, and 8 and viruses do 1,2,3,5,6, and 7

*asterisk

 

[Vaalingrade]

Also, no living thing quacks.

Yes, I am aware of ducks. I'm also aware that ducks are engines of terror beyond our kin.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Also, no living thing quacks.

Yes, I am aware of ducks. I'm also aware that ducks are engines of terror beyond our kin.

who made the misfortune choice of being fairly tasty.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Unless it's a virus.

See, there's actually a number of characteristics science requires to define life (a lot of which were added to prevent fire from counting as a living thing). Per Study.com:

1. Reproduction - For something to be considered alive, it must be able to reproduce and create offspring.
2. Heredity - Heredity is the ability to pass on genetic material (DNA) from parent to offspring. This can be in the form of phenotypic traits (the way a living thing looks on the outside) and genotypic traits (the actual genetic code that determines how something behaves and looks).
3. Cellular Organization - All living things are composed of one or more cells.
4. Growth and Development - All organisms develop over time to become more physically and mentally mature.
5. Adaptation Through Evolution - Every living thing has evolved at some point in time, and continues to do so in order to adapt to an everchanging environment.
6. Response to Stimuli - Living things respond to stimuli in their environment.
7. Homeostasis - Homeostasis is a living thing's ability to maintain stable internal factors, such as blood pressure, body temperature (thermoregulation), and water balance within cells.
8. Metabolism - An organism must use chemical reactions to process and/or use resources from the environment in order to continue functioning.

So pretty much all undead already hit 3, 6, and 7.

There's really no reason they can't also do 1 and still be comfortable considered Not Alive since fire does 1,4*,6,7, and 8 and viruses do 1,2,3,5,6, and 7

*asterisk

What it means to be alive has is something scientists have been arguing about for over a hundred years, and the current definition is coming under attack from both virologists and exobilogists (I'm a science teacher, I stay current). The deep sea bacteria that get their energy from geothermal vents being an example of "a different energy source". Who knows what might exist elsewhere in the universe?

But what "alive" means is irrelevant. The question is, "what does undead mean?" Unless you can come up with some sort of equivalent list for undead it is useless as a descriptor.

 

[Mind of tempest]

What it means to be alive has is something scientists have been arguing about for over a hundred years, and the current definition is coming under attack from both virologists and exobilogists (I'm a science teacher, I stay current). The deep sea bacteria that get their energy from geothermal vents being an example of "a different energy source". Who knows what might exist elsewhere in the universe?

But what "alive" means is irrelevant. The question is, "what does undead mean?" Unless you can come up with some sort of equivalent list for undead it is useless as a descriptor.

geothermal is not a different energy source as they sill you biochemistry which is what they run on, otherwise, plants and aminals would be different kinds of things instead of both being types of life.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

geothermal is not a different energy source as they sill you biochemistry which is what they run on, otherwise, plants and aminals would be different kinds of things instead of both being types of life.

It's different scientifically - plants and animals (and most kinds of bacteria) get their energy from the Sun. The exact biochemical pathways by which the energy conversion takes place is irrelevant to the concept of life, and non-biochemical life is possible, and undoubtedly exists in D&D.

But as I say, "what is life" is irreverent to the question of "what is undead". Lots have things have been suggested, but they have all been dismissed on the basis of being "boring". If you can't define what it means to be undead, you cannot say how it differs from life.