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Have you been disillusioned by Eberron?

Have you been disillusioned by Eberron?

  • Yes

    Votes: 61 16.8%
  • No

    Votes: 231 63.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 12.7%
  • Eberron? What's Eberron?

    Votes: 25 6.9%

Hand of Evil said:
I am just glad my players have not started to think sex-bots :heh:
The next generation of House Cannith innovations in the post-War environment where soldiers aren't necessary--the sexforged!

After all, the theme of expats living in France (where almost an entire generation of young men had been wiped out in WWI) to hook up with chicks is an important cultural element of the 20s. Somebody in another thread came up with the idea of a Warforged that acted like Hemingway--this is the next step from that!
 

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It just seems to me that setting assumptions about psionics and the questions that surround those assumptions are too much to swallow.
Staffan said:
Basically, yes. The first wave of human emigrants from Sarlona came 3,000 years ago. The kalashtar appeared 1,800 years ago, followed by the Inspired 300 years later. The arrival of the Inspired and their conquest of Sarlona set off a second wave of emigration - it's pretty likely that the people fleeing the psionic Inspired would not want to bring any psionic dudes along for the ride.
I don’t follow why it would be likely that the fleeing humans wouldn’t want to bring psions with them.
The kalashtar have several racial features (social bonuses and a bonus to disguise themselves as humans) that make it plausible that they were amongst the emigrating humans. Further, it you would have to assume that the fleeing Sarlonans had never seen any altruistic or morally good psionic individuals and were carrying an irrational prejudice against psionics in general. While this might have been the case some of the time, it’s a larger assumption to assume it always happened. Surely there were at least a few instances in which the kalashtar and the humans fought and died together against the Inspired, which would go a long way towards reducing human prejudice towards psionics. Remember that humans in D&D are the curious and practical race, ready to accept new ideas and situations more easily than other races.

Is it really plausible that no significant numbers of psions emigrated from Sarlona during the Inspired conquest? The second wave of emigration didn’t happen in a single day, I assume. It probably occurred over a number of years (probably decades) as the Inspired gradually took control of an entire continent. Some of the kalashtar went into hiding in Adar, but is it reasonable to assume that a number significant enough to introduce psionics on a moderate scale in Khorvaire didn’t somehow find their way to the eastern shores? It wouldn’t have to be a mixed boat of humans and kalashtar, since surely there were sufficient numbers of kalashtar to fill a boat or two on their own?

The previous paragraph assumes, moreover, that the only psionic beings in Sarlona at the time of the Inspired invasion were kalashtar. The kalashtar had a 300 year head start on the quori. In those three centuries, shouldn’t we assume that some (if not many) humans managed to learn psionics from the peaceful kalashtar? Keith Baker mentions in the Ask Keith Baker FAQ (Thanks for the link, Glyfair!):
For a kalashtar, psion levels represent its bond to its quori spirit, and thus are a innate strength that it hones. For other creatures, they represent a learned skill at manipulating the psionic energies that reside in realms like Dal Quor and Xoriat, which can be focused through the lens of a human mind....Therefore, a psion generally learns his abilities from a kalashtar, or from another character who learned from a kalashtar (or who was trained by the Dreaming Dark for some odd reason).
I can understand some kalashtar caution for the first century after their arrival in Sarlona, but three centuries worth? As far as I know, there’s no mention of kalashtar being jealous guardians of psionic power. Further, once a few humans learned psionics, then the horse is out of the barn. They can teach it to more and more humans without the assumed kalashtar racial bias against teaching psionics to non-kalashtar. Humans are practical and inquisitive as a race, so they’re predisposed to spread psionics.

We have no evidence to suggest that the humans were at war with the kalashtar prior to the arrival of the Inspired. The kalashtar are modified humans, so it’s certainly plausible that the “converted” humans were quickly reabsorbed into human society. There was no external threat to all of humanity in the form of the Inspired for the first 300 years that the kalashtar were in Sarlona. If the politics between human kingdoms in Khorvaire is a guide for how human kingdoms relate to one another, the Sarlonan kingdoms were probably embroiled in their own wars and conflicts. It’s fair to suggest that some kalashtar were just integrated into the social fabric of the human kingdoms and joined in the same wars and conflicts. This, in turn, would suggest that the kalashtar would be disposed to teach psionics to Sarlonans. Humans would spread it amongst themselves from there.

That last point throws into stark relief how the designers approach to psionics grates against on of the central themes of the setting. The cultures of Eberron have made aggressive and practical use of all supernatural energies available to them. If psionics are not present on Khorvaire, then we have to swallow all the tortured assumptions I’ve listed above about psionics somehow having been contained to Sarlona after the arrival of the kalashtar 1800 years ago. If that’s all too much for you to swallow, as I hope it is, then psionics arrived on Khorvaire approximately 1200-1500 years ago. Should we now assume that in one thousand years, psionics didn’t spread across Khorvaire? The cultures of Eberron are ruthless in the dissemination and practical application of arcane and divine energies across Khorvaire. Within the context of the setting, why wouldn’t the races of Khorvaire do the same with psionic energy?.

There is no satisfactory answer for that question that doesn’t invoke metagame considerations. This is where I became disillusioned with part of Eberron. On the whole, I do like Eberron. Were I to run a D&D game, I would set it there. But Eberron’s implementation of psionics is no better than any other non-Dark Sun D&D setting.

It’s not enough to point to the fact that the rationale for psionics was present in the setting from Day One. That distinguishes Eberron from other settings (like FR, for example) in their timing, but not their content. FR also has an in-setting explanation for what psionics is and where it comes from. The level of information regarding psionics in Eberron and FR is practically the same. It just so happens that FR didn’t include it at the start of the setting and Eberron did.

Eberron does not integrate psionics into it’s setting any more than FR does. I understand that there are metagame reasons for this. But the writers and designers of Eberron were so focused on the metagame (and, ultimately, quite unconcerned with psionics in itself. It seems clear that there isn’t a serious psionics fan in the bunch) that the setting-based treatment of psionics was slapdash and riddled with these ridiculous assumptions that I’ve outlined above.

Eberron is a great setting, but not for psionics. I am disillusioned with the idea that Eberron is accommodating of psionics in any meaningful sense.
 

Dave Turner said:
It just seems to me that setting assumptions about psionics and the questions that surround those assumptions are too much to swallow.

Your level of incredulity seems a little extreme. The Kalashtar are an insular people. You need to be when you're being hunted by entities that no one believes exist. If they did start teaching psionics on a mass scale, the Quori might mind seed the students and trace those schools back to the source, much to the detriment of the Kalashtar.

Regarding Sarlonan psions, perhaps there was a fledgling movement in the time between the arrival of the Kalashtar and the Quori(although hanging out in a monastery doesn't seem like the best way to get the message out). The Quori are subtle. I would expect them to wipe out or convert those psions first. Just as they rubbed out religion and arcane practices, they saw that psionics(unless in the hands of their carefully molded hosts) is one of the few disciplines that actually poses a threat to them.

Keith has said that psionics are tied to Dal Quor and to Xoriat, not very nice places to associate with. The Kalashtar have faced the worst Dal Quor had to throw at them, but ignorant humans might be something altogether different. Even if people didn't find it unsavory, as you said, magic abounds. It's known, measured and prevalent. Do you find it ridiculous that Khorvairans don't use steam power? Magic fills the role that psionics could. There's no pressing need for its adoption. The vast majority of Eberron remains to be written. Perhaps, the Dragonmarked Houses saw the rise of psionics as a threat to their monopoly and sent Phiarlan assassins after them. Perhaps psionics and the taint of Xoriat were behind the madness and aberrant marks of Lord Tarkanan(before the Kalashtar even arrived).

Keith Baker is a big fan of psionics. I think he did an admirable job of giving it a place without driving a wedge in a fanbase long divided on the issue.
 

Fafhrd said:
The Kalashtar are an insular people. You need to be when you're being hunted by entities that no one believes exist. If they did start teaching psionics on a mass scale, the Quori might mind seed the students and trace those schools back to the source, much to the detriment of the Kalashtar.
The kalashtar weren't insular enough it seems, since there are no racial restrictions in Eberron regarding the use of psionics. Even the warforged are allowed to have psionic class levels (and idea which Keith admits in the Ask Keith Baker FAQ). As I mentioned in my previous post, it isn't necessary that every non-kalashtar psion in Eberron have a kalashtar trainer. The first generation of non-kalashtar would go on to train other non-kalashtar and things would just naturally spread from there. This would be a considerable number of individuals in three centuries, or even two centuries if you allow for one century for the kalashtar to overcome their insular natures.

Further, there is no requirement that a mind seed target has to be psionic to be affected by the power. It works on barbarians and experts the same way it works on psions. If the kalashtar were worried about Quori mind seeds, why not educate the humans around them about what mind seeds are and try to awaken more psionic potential so that people might learn psionic defenses to psionic attack?

If you're worried about hidden concentrations of kalashtar being exposed to Quori spies, then I'm sure that there were other concentrations of kalashtar aside from psionic monasterys. Any human, whether they were learning psionics or not, who knew of the existence of kalashtar and knew where some kalashtar settlements were was a potential Quori mind seed target. I don't see a plausible reason why kalashtar would use the fear of discovery by Quori to avoid teaching psionics to Sarlonans.
Fafhrd said:
Regarding Sarlonan psions, perhaps there was a fledgling movement in the time between the arrival of the Kalashtar and the Quori(although hanging out in a monastery doesn't seem like the best way to get the message out). The Quori are subtle. I would expect them to wipe out or convert those psions first. Just as they rubbed out religion and arcane practices, they saw that psionics(unless in the hands of their carefully molded hosts) is one of the few disciplines that actually poses a threat to them.
Even if we grant the dubious assumption that the Quori perfectly eradicated all psionic opposition without a single psionic individual escaping the continent during the second emigration, the kalashtar would have known that the thing that Quori fear the most is psioncis. The kalashtar are quori as well, after all. The humans probably outnumbered the kalashtar, so are we to assume that kalashtar chose not to train humans (a source of willing, capable, and numerous allies) in the techniques best suited to defeat the Inspired invaders because they were too insular? The kalashtar would have preferred to die at the hands of the Inspired rather than share their secrets with people who could save them?

Again, claims about "Quori subtlety" in halting the spread of psionics from Khorvaire assume that the Inspired were able to exercise a godlike level of control over the movements of an entire continent's worth of people. Let's assume that the kalashtar didn't train a single human in psionics in the three centuries prior to the arrival of the Inspired. Did the Inspired invaders kill or convert every psionic kalashtar on the entire continent, such that none of them escaped to Khorvaire during the second migration? I understand that this is a fantasy world and that Eberron features things like a cataclysm that wiped out a entire nation in a single day. Did the Inspired enact some kind of psionic super-ritual that instantly and simultaneously killed or converted every psionic kalashtar during the Quori invasion? It's possible, but it hasn't been mentioned to date and such an explanation would reek of the kind of metagame thinking that bothers me.
Fafhrd said:
Even if people didn't find it unsavory, as you said, magic abounds. It's known, measured and prevalent. Do you find it ridiculous that Khorvairans don't use steam power? Magic fills the role that psionics could. There's no pressing need for its adoption.
There are things that psionics can do more easily than magic. A seer 3 is a better detective than wizards and sorcers of much higher levels, thanks to Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions and Object Reading. Tongues is gained at 3rd level for psions, not 5th level. True Seeing is gained at 9th level instead of 11th for arcane casters. 7th level telepaths can use schism to manifest two powers per turn, a feat which arcane casters can't match to my knowledge. Energy Missile is a 2nd level power which can deliver 15d6 worth of total damage spread across five enemies with no danger of hitting your allies in battle. There's a lot that psionics can do better than arcane or divine magic.

Psions are the ultimate subtle casters. With a successful Concentration check, they can manifest a power with no outward display of any kind. They don't need to pick up feats like Still Spell or Silent Spell and play the wizard's guessing game of what spells they should use the metamagic on (at a +2 spell slot penalty). Psions have no power point penalty for this. They are ideal spies, diplomats, and assassins.

If anything, the cultures of Eberron would have to aggressively pursue psionics to protect themselves. It's a classic arms race, where you have to develop psionics to defend yourself from your psionic opponents.

It's not required that psionics would fill every role that magic fills on Khorvaire. All that is required is the possibility that psionics would have some unique roles to play and the rest would take care of itself. Psionics is different enough from arcane and divine magic to have those unique roles and, following the central idea in Eberron that cultures extract the most practical use from a source of power/energy that they can, it should have a prominent place in Khorvaire.
 

*posts at random*

Eberron = better than boring Spelljammer.

Eberron disillusionment, only if I had any deep interest.

FR disillusionment, I had that in 2nd edition.
 

Dave Turner said:
The first generation of non-kalashtar would go on to train other non-kalashtar and things would just naturally spread from there.

Except the indications are that it's not just a matter of training. The indications are that everyone doesn't have the ability to use psionics. You can't train a person with no limbs to sew, likewise you can't train someone without psionic talent to use psionics.

Also, it's noted that psionics are pretty much unknown outside of Sarlona. Even when they manifest, the people don't say "wow, I've got psionics." As far as they know they've developed some interesting magical abilities. Even if someone discovered they had something different, and wanted (forced?) them to train others, it wouldn't work unless they happened to find someone that had the talent, too.

I also disagree with an assumption. You seem to think that Sarlona is/was teeming with psionic humans (elves, dwarves, etc). Keith has pointed out that Sarlona has almost no one with psionic abilities that aren't connected to the Q'uori (the Kalashtar and Inspired). THis is partially because the Inspired have them dealt with when it happens.

Sarlona isn't teeming with psionic activity and that's why the Q'uori are interested. Sarlona has most of the psionics because that's where the Inspired and Kalashtar are. I don't think humans with the ability to become psionic are any more common there than elsewhere.

Now Changelings seem to have a higher than normal percentage of those who can use psionics. It's probably because of that doppleganger blood in their background. Even so, changelings don't tend to be the sorts to go around advertising this sort of thing. They keep it a secret (probably even from other changelings, so they have an advantage over them).
 
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Dave Turner said:
The kalashtar weren't insular enough it seems, since there are no racial restrictions in Eberron regarding the use of psionics. Even the warforged are allowed to have psionic class levels (and idea which Keith admits in the Ask Keith Baker FAQ). As I mentioned in my previous post, it isn't necessary that every non-kalashtar psion in Eberron have a kalashtar trainer. The first generation of non-kalashtar would go on to train other non-kalashtar and things would just naturally spread from there. This would be a considerable number of individuals in three centuries, or even two centuries if you allow for one century for the kalashtar to overcome their insular natures.

I view the Kalashtar insularity as a measure to protect themselves from the Quori rather than as any sort of attempt to prevent the spread of psionics, but the latter could make for some interesting plots. I don't see a connection between racial class restrictions and the proclivity for taking said class. I also don't see the necessity of any sort of viral spread of psionics. Disciplined arts take time, effort and interest(or madness in the case of a follower of the dragon below).


Further, there is no requirement that a mind seed target has to be psionic to be affected by the power. It works on barbarians and experts the same way it works on psions. If the kalashtar were worried about Quori mind seeds, why not educate the humans around them about what mind seeds are and try to awaken more psionic potential so that people might learn psionic defenses to psionic attack?

I don't imagine the Kalashtar open many barbarian training camps. Even if they did, they wouldn't need to give up their cloistered identities. True, anyone brought into the fold might turn out to be an ally, but they might also turn out to be a mole. Worse, turncoats would now be more able to pierce veil of secrecy thanks to the newfound talents.
The Kalashtar have seen human viciousness played out again and again since they arrived, I don't think its unfathomable to expect them to act as they do.


If you're worried about hidden concentrations of kalashtar being exposed to Quori spies, then I'm sure that there were other concentrations of kalashtar aside from psionic monasterys. Any human, whether they were learning psionics or not, who knew of the existence of kalashtar and knew where some kalashtar settlements were was a potential Quori mind seed target. I don't see a plausible reason why kalashtar would use the fear of discovery by Quori to avoid teaching psionics to Sarlonans.

Sarlonans who know that "there's a foreign quarter over there" are a rather different story than "yeah there's a psion training school right down the block. Look for the wooden sign with the symbol of a levitating man."

Even if we grant the dubious assumption that the Quori perfectly eradicated all psionic opposition without a single psionic individual escaping the continent during the second emigration, the kalashtar would have known that the thing that Quori fear the most is psioncis. The kalashtar are quori as well, after all. The humans probably outnumbered the kalashtar, so are we to assume that kalashtar chose not to train humans (a source of willing, capable, and numerous allies) in the techniques best suited to defeat the Inspired invaders because they were too insular? The kalashtar would have preferred to die at the hands of the Inspired rather than share their secrets with people who could save them?

The Kalashtar think they're winning the war. Why risk that with such an enormous gamble?

Again, claims about "Quori subtlety" in halting the spread of psionics from Khorvaire assume that the Inspired were able to exercise a godlike level of control over the movements of an entire continent's worth of people. Let's assume that the kalashtar didn't train a single human in psionics in the three centuries prior to the arrival of the Inspired. Did the Inspired invaders kill or convert every psionic kalashtar on the entire continent, such that none of them escaped to Khorvaire during the second migration? I understand that this is a fantasy world and that Eberron features things like a cataclysm that wiped out a entire nation in a single day. Did the Inspired enact some kind of psionic super-ritual that instantly and simultaneously killed or converted every psionic kalashtar during the Quori invasion? It's possible, but it hasn't been mentioned to date and such an explanation would reek of the kind of metagame thinking that bothers me.

Maybe I'm missing something. The adarans are alive and kicking. Beleaguered, but kicking.


There are things that psionics can do more easily than magic. A seer 3 is a better detective than wizards and sorcers of much higher levels, thanks to Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions and Object Reading. Tongues is gained at 3rd level for psions, not 5th level. True Seeing is gained at 9th level instead of 11th for arcane casters. 7th level telepaths can use schism to manifest two powers per turn, a feat which arcane casters can't match to my knowledge. Energy Missile is a 2nd level power which can deliver 15d6 worth of total damage spread across five enemies with no danger of hitting your allies in battle. There's a lot that psionics can do better than arcane or divine magic.

Psions are the ultimate subtle casters. With a successful Concentration check, they can manifest a power with no outward display of any kind. They don't need to pick up feats like Still Spell or Silent Spell and play the wizard's guessing game of what spells they should use the metamagic on (at a +2 spell slot penalty). Psions have no power point penalty for this. They are ideal spies, diplomats, and assassins.

A wizard is better than a magewright at nearly every aspect of their specialty. Yet, wizards are very rare by comparison, and they have an enduring cultural tradition. Clerical power has some real demonstrable benefits for the average joe(and you don't even have to serve the gods well to boot) but the churches are packed with experts. I don't see why psionics, known mainly to a group of hermetic outsiders, couldn't be even more vanishingly rare.

Regarding the metagame statistics, most people wouldn't know the differences between a sorceror and a wizard. It would require an experts level of understanding to debate the finer points you mention.

If anything, the cultures of Eberron would have to aggressively pursue psionics to protect themselves. It's a classic arms race, where you have to develop psionics to defend yourself from your psionic opponents.[/QUOTE ]

The Inspired seem to be doing pretty well with their reliance stacked squarely upon the shoulders of psionics. Or do you find that wholly implausible as well?

It's not required that psionics would fill every role that magic fills on Khorvaire. All that is required is the possibility that psionics would have some unique roles to play and the rest would take care of itself. Psionics is different enough from arcane and divine magic to have those unique roles and, following the central idea in Eberron that cultures extract the most practical use from a source of power/energy that they can, it should have a prominent place in Khorvaire.

People act against their long term interests for a litany of reasons to long to name. But all of this is beside the point I was trying to make earlier. I was merely offering suggestions. With the next supplement we may find out that there are hidden cells of non-Kalashtar psions in every nation on Khorvaire. I doubt it, but we just don't know. At least, I don't.

The thing I find bizarre is that given the enormous skein of history for which we currently have only a bare bones accounting, you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of some event, or confluence of events which might have led to the current representation of psionics on Khorvaire today.
 
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Dave Turner said:
Even the warforged are allowed to have psionic class levels (and idea which Keith admits in the Ask Keith Baker FAQ).
Most of these "admissions" tend to be of the form "I can think of a few cool ways that you could have a psionic warforged", rather than "Sure, there are buttloads of them out there."

Psionics is rare in Eberron - restricted to an insular minority race, their secretive and conspiratorial persecutors, those touched by the Realm of Madness or corrupted by the taint of the Dragon Below, and freak individual occurrences caused by events like the Mourning (and possibly including the effects of eldritch machines).

The real reason there aren't psiwrights and psi-powered technology all over Khorvaire is that Wizards didn't want to push psionics on DMs and players who don't care for it. The in-setting "logical reason" is that psionics is a rare force, 99% controlled by individuals who don't have the mindset or the motivation to commodify it the way that magic has been commodified.

Everything Keith Baker says about ways non-kalashtar non-Inspired non-Dragon Below cultist non-Xoriat-connected people can be psions is meant to account for the kind of freak occurrences that make for heroes. His explicit paradigm is "The PCs are special" - he doesn't think NPCs gain XP or action points or levels the same way as PCs do, for instance, and while he offers explanations for how you could have a warforged psion and the like it's meant as a way of legitimating PC concepts, not as an indication that n% of the warforged population are psions!

(Admittedly, Races of Eberron messes with this paradigm a little by offering racial substitution levels in psionic classes for non-kalashtar, but that is I think excusable given that it's a core D&D product with roots in Eberron rather than an Eberron product per se - and, frankly, the changeling egoist makes a lot of sense to me. :))
 

I accept that you are writing from the "I want Eberron to be immersed in psionics" and that emotion isn't going to change.

However your insistence that the way psionics is handled is illogical is wrong. It’s not the way you would do it (obviously, because you dig psionics) but that only makes it different not logically incorrect.

Your biggest false assumption is that psionics somehow exist in Eberron naturally. Why? Where did you read this? Do you feel that everyone has always had access to the same stuff that modern society has? If you are willing to accept that Lightning Rails didn’t exist during the age of Demons why does psionics have to?
(Is it a love the X-Men-style magic power where “joe farmboy” can wake up one day with the power to destroy buildings?)

In Eberron psionics, as people pointed out above, were developed by beings from the plane of dreams and brought to Eberron comparatively recently; Psionics arrived with the Kalashar maybe 1898 years before the current Eberron campaign's dates.

It’s important to remember something about Eberron (you may not like it but this is a fact of the setting).
1. There are few high level PC class characters, and even fewer high level spell casters.
2. Members of the dragonmarked houses, using dragonshard items, can generate effects -much- more cheaply than a comparable high spell caster (especially if you factor opportunity costs of building up a wizard to the point that these powers are available).

So, while you as a DM might love the idea of a big market for psionic spells and items it doesn't make much sense. Even if the Kalashar had a racial mindset like that of the Neogi (moneymoneymoney) they can't beat the dragonmarked houses on price. Plus...
1) their numbers are probably a few hundred or so at that point they arrived on Eberron.... well over a thousand years after the Dragonmarked Houses set up their monopolies.
2) nobody can properly assess and value psionic items, except the people who are trying to sell them
3) they are devoting their energies to a holy war against very powerful foes; their method of fighting the holy war involves a lot of praying and religious activity (i.e. they don't have a lot of free time)
4) Culture shock.... modern Kalashar are weird.... their ancestors, fresh off the boat from a place where reality was constantly influx must have been extremely weird.
5) The Kalashar themselves were, like Kalashar born now, low level. The Quori spirits are vague animating presences and impulses. The Kalashar section of Races of Eberron makes it clear that they gave up their sense of unique self and their powers in order to survive.
6) From moment the arrived they were hunted. Some Kalashar lines, including that of their leader, were completely wiped out within a few years of arriving by spies and assassins.

So there was no sudden explosion of psionic items being bought and sold, the Kalashar came together to form defensable monasteries and worked hard to keep outsiders (who were most likely spies or killers anyway). They almost certainly didn't feel like taking time away from their holy war to train non-believers (and believers, especially the humans of Sarlona, "breed" into being Kalashar).

They are just a small segment of the population avoiding attention. Probably at some point somebody tried to approach them to get them to teach them awesome powers but religious telepaths can probably suss out who's BSing them before that person has gotten far enough to develop even one power point.

Meanwhile, the Dragonmarked houses continue to innovate (and expand their economic might) both through their marks and through the magical colleges they sponsor.

You are right that a Seer 3 is better than a wizard 3 at certain kinds of divination. But DnD isn't just a raw application of math to solve goals.

Assume you are a noble and you need something found quickly. You can go to the local Thrask Guildhouse and hire a wide variety of divination services from a name you can trust OR you can make a months long journey into the mountains to try to get some holy man (who doesn't want your gold and anyway is rather busy with all the assassins and the holy war, thank you very much) to help you.
If you were the noble and your daughter was missing would you really go trying to find some 3rd level Seer?

Dave Turner said:
If anything, the cultures of Eberron would have to aggressively pursue psionics to protect themselves. It's a classic arms race, where you have to develop psionics to defend yourself from your psionic opponents.
Lets talk about the race to develop nuclear arms last century as an example, and then hopefully you can see why you're using an inappropriate metaphor.

Nukes, in terms of destructive might, are an order of magnitude superior to the weapons that proceeded them. Conventional bombs could destroy buildings, Nukes destroy cities (plus all the radiation induced sickness, fertility problems, etc).
Psionics are, sometimes, a bit better than magic. Sometimes magic is better. They are (thankyouBruceCordelmayIpleasehaveyourchildren) pretty balanced against each other.

In the real world someone, (lets say the US) starts to develop Nukes. You (lets say your the USSR) realize that if they get nukes they will gain the ability to destroy entire cities and turn the surrounding area into a wasteland. This is a capacity that your existing conventional weaponry can't do anything about. You really want Nukes. You want them baaaad. Other countries, who may not like you, want you to have them just so the US has somebody to who they can stop.

In Eberron someone, lets say a rival noble, as employed a jaded and bitter Kalashar. The Kalashar boy has spent most of his time sitting around and praying in a temple; your recently hired grizzled war mage has killed more people in combat than the boy has probably met. The Kalashar boy can make fire (apparently something about ectoplasm), but your war mage has explained that counter spelling isn't an effective battle field technique, and he's planning on disrupting the boys abilities with a spell that clouds vision or just killing the brat outright with magic missiles.
Oh and when you go out to hire another war mage there are a bunch of them around...
The next bitter jaded Kalashar who would give up his holy quest to work for money hasn't been born yet.

I understand that you want a world where every third spell caster is a psion, but the fact that Eberron isn't doesn't mean its illogical, it just means its not to your liking.
 

Graf said:
snip snip.

That was a heckuva long post. I wanted to read the whole thing, but didn't have enough time. I read War and Peace instead.

Nageeeee omae, maji de!

Graf said:
So there was no sudden explosion of psionic items being bought and sold, the Kalashar came together to form defensable monasteries and worked hard to keep outsiders (who were most likely spies or killers anyway). They almost certainly didn't feel like taking time away from their holy war to train non-believers (and believers, especially the humans of Sarlona, "breed" into being Kalashar).

This point settles the issue for me. Kalashar didn't want to spread knowledge of psionics...

...so they didn't.

Perhaps they conciously decided that they would be more safe if the other residents of Eberron were unfamiliar with their powers. Perhaps they're just xenophobic. In any case, it seems plausible to me.
 

Into the Woods

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