D&D 5E Heat Metal Spell. Unfair to Heavy Armor Wearers?

[Mistwell]

Sorry I meant that you didn't take time to discuss breaking it, which is a huge part of why Heat Metal is limited in power, I should have been clearer.

And running away is, as I noted, effectively deleting yourself from the encounter except for that spell. The spell is balanced in the context of a fight. I mean, let look at some monsters which can cast Heat Metal (please feel free to add your own examples).

Magma Mephit - Magma Mephit - This is guy is basically the best-case scenario for "heat metal and run" - not only is he low-level, but he can fly, so could "run" straight up. He also does relatively low damage, though he does have fire breath and explodes on death. He can cast Heat Metal, but it's 1/day. He does average 5 damage a round on a hit, can sometimes firebreath for 7 in an area, and explodes for 7.

So this good for the hit-and-run. However the round you cast it, even if you win initiative, best case you're only getting 30ft away, and that means you are likely within missile/spell range for 2 rounds, minimum, and good luck surviving with 11 AC and 22 HP lol.

90 feet. They cast from 60' away, and move 30' away. So longbows and eldritch blast can reach, but already a majority of other range attacks are either out of range (most spells) or long range. And on round two they are 150' away and out of range.

Lizardfolk Shaman - Monster Manual - Nearly as flimsy as a Mephit in humanoid form, but has an absolute ton of spells (including multiple casts of Heat Metal), and can turn into a crocodile, so if you run you've given up a significant part of the encounter value. Also Conjure Animals is probably a much, much better use of your Concentration the Heat Metal.

In a swamp they could run away pretty well though with swim speed in both forms.

Babau - Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse - Well obviously this guy doesn't want to run away. He does more damage than Heat Metal and he can also cast spells and use Weakening Gaze.

I guess what we're seeing is that Magma Mephits are massive jerks who could definitely pull this stuff and murder a low-level PC. But looking on Beyond at monsters I find when I search for Heat Metal I'm not seeing any other good candidates for cast-and-run. So this seems more like a "nerf Magma Mephits" issue than anything else.

The most common foe I've seen do these sorts of things is just an NPC humanoid caster. Red wizards, some of the factions in Waterdeep, some drow, some kua toa, some yuan-ti, just your ordinary pain in the butt humanoid spellcasters. Often in a surprise round ambush, popping up on rooftops, around corners, from behind cover in an alley, etc.. They're a dime a dozen in our games. It's why the counterspell spell becomes important for us.

 

[Mistwell]

When I see threads like this one I wonder if people actually have play experience with the spell in 5E, or if they're assuming what it would be like in play because a lot of the arguments I see in threads like this do not match my experiences.

It's from actual play experience. Multiple times. You just need to ask though.

If your caster runs away to make sure they can continue to deal the damage, they're out of the fight. You're diminishing that enemy force by 1 spellcaster. If they stay close enough to be effective, they're often caught up and their concetration can be broken.

Generally it's a group using good ambush and run tactics. They all do something for a surprise round or first round, often coordinated with each other, and run. They then engage again later. Common hit and run tactics for assassins with at least one (but often more than one) caster, often in crowded conditions with lots of cover. Super pain in the butt but makes for meaningful lasting foes. Sometimes it's a set ambush which comes after a certain period of time, or after the PCs have kicked up a hornets nest in the wrong place.

Don't get me wrong. There are ways this can be devastating. I had an NPC druid betray a PC and cast a 5th level version (5d8) on a PC when they were out out on their own. The PC fighter was 10th level and had ~90 hps. On the same turn they cast it, the Moon Druid turned into a giant badger and dug 10 feet down into the ground (leaving no tunnel). The fighter was taking 22 damage per turn, roughly, and had no way to get out of the armor quickly, and no way to get at the druid. They had to be inventive to get back to allies fast (and to draw their allies to them) while trying to stay on their feet through healing and RP based ways to cool the armor off (I allowed diving into water to give them some small reduction in the damage).

However, this was not something we'd see in combat. This was a well executed use of the spell as an assassination technique.

Yes, that's what I've seen too. Assassination spells. So you've had actual play experience with it too!

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I guess this spell is why we have chainmail bikinis/mankinis.

 

[Oofta]

I'm still waiting to find out if fireball is unfair to characters not proficient in Dex saves.

Dex based PCs have almost all the benefits and few, if any of the disadvantages. Including being far more likely to save vs fireball. Heat metal just piles it on.

In addition, while fireball does damage (and not that much to individual targets for a 3rd level spell, about the same as you're going to take from heat metal) it doesn't have anything like the multiple rounds of disadvantage.

 

[Oofta]

I guess this spell is why we have chainmail bikinis/mankinis.

Nope. Not envisioning mankini + heat metal. No-siree.

 

[DragonBelow]

2) I do allow for some counters to the spell. Applying water or some other cooling agent will suppress the damage for 1 round. So simple submersion will stop the damage, if it's expedient. I also allow the control flames cantrip to halt the damage, again for 1 round. So repeated casting can also stop the damage.

I did this for a monster. It jumped back in the lake and I gave him a save. The player didn't appreciate it.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Just a minor point on the comments about this spell and Warforged. It does not work on them because they are classified as creatures and not objects.

Also, someone mentioned a 20th level Fighter vs 3 or 4 Druids? That would not work because in 5E same spells do not stack, only the more powerful one counts. So 3 Druids would be wasting their time if there are 4 of them all trying to cast Heat Metal on an enemy.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

And the vast majority of enemies who cast this spell, are fairly easy to break Concentration on. I can't think of any enemies with Advantage on CON saves, or similar stuff that would protect their Concentration the way some PC casters can do it too.

Pretty sure there aren't any (at least in the various official sources) that have Advantage on Constitution saves. There are also zero creatures who even have proficiency in Con saves and also have heat metal as a spell known.

So, while it might be uncommon to fight creatures that have metal armor, it's essentially unheard of to have a creature with high Concentration saves and heat metal, unless the DM is actively putting it into the game. At which point...why are they doing this if it's a problem...?

 

[James Gasik]

Dex based PCs have almost all the benefits and few, if any of the disadvantages. Including being far more likely to save vs fireball. Heat metal just piles it on.

In addition, while fireball does damage (and not that much to individual targets for a 3rd level spell, about the same as you're going to take from heat metal) it doesn't have anything like the multiple rounds of disadvantage.

Just throw this on the pile of "well we can't really make heavy armor super good, but we'll make you think that not having to invest in Dexterity is a feature!".

 

[Mistwell]

Pretty sure there aren't any (at least in the various official sources) that have Advantage on Constitution saves. There are also zero creatures who even have proficiency in Con saves and also have heat metal as a spell known.

So, while it might be uncommon to fight creatures that have metal armor, it's essentially unheard of to have a creature with high Concentration saves and heat metal, unless the DM is actively putting it into the game. At which point...why are they doing this if it's a problem...?

Does your DM not use humanoid spellcasters? No human wizard NPCs in your games for instance? Red Wizards just...not a threat?