Help me beat my DM :)

[Darkness]

I think it's pretty clear that it's almost impossible to win this one offensively (unless you win Initiative and throw off a killer spell that beats the dragon's SR and the dragon fails its save - i.e., three not-too-easy rolls in a row).

However, I wonder if it can be won defensively?
That is, is it possible to build a character that can stand up to that dragon long enough to slowly wear it down?

Also, are Cohorts allowed?

 

[Despaxas]

Hmmmz, Thanks for all the replies guys. I've figured a couple of things out by now. No way I'm going throught the SR, and I'll be cowering like a terrified little slime-toad. So here's my solutions:
Need Time-stop, and Gate, Gate, Gate solars in to demolish that thing.
Need 1 level of paladin, last level, for the no fear thingy.

Anybody have some other ideas on how to trash a Dragon, read Jeremy's post on the Dragon. I'm afraid my DM is gonna use something very similar

So no spells that require SR or Saves lol. I guess I'll be summoning everything I can.
Maybe memorize all the Time Stops I can and then have 20 scrolls of Gate for a veritable army of Solars would work. IF I win ini.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Wish.

"I wish this dragon were dead."

done.

 

[Sanackranib]

dragon

Using just the monster manual you could be up against a:

GREAT WYRM HALF-CELESTIAL GOLD DRAGON
Colossal Outsider (Fire, Good, Lawful)

Hit Dice: 71d12+923 (1384 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 60 ft, fly 250 ft (clumsy), swim 60 ft
AC: 46 (+3 Dex, -8 size, +41 natural)
Attacks: Bite +81 melee, 2 claws +76 melee, 2 wings +76 melee, tail slap +76 melee
Damage: Bite 4d8+18, claw 4d6+9, wing 2d8+9, tail slap 4d6+27
Face/Reach: 40 ft by 80 ft / 15 ft
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, spell-like abilities, luck bonus, detect gems, half-celestial spell-like abilities, frightful presence
Special Qualities: +4 save vs. poison, water breathing, immunities, DR 20/+3, blindsight, keen senses, SR 33
Saves: Fort +50, Ref +40, Will +49
Abilities: Str 47, Dex 16, Con 37, Int 35, Wis 34, Cha 33

Skills: Bluff +82, Concentration +84, Diplomacy +82, Escape Artist +74, Jump +89, Knowledge (arcana, architecture, geography, history, nature, nobility, planes, religion, plus any 3) +83, Listen +85, Scry +83, Search +83, Sense Motive +83, Spellcraft +83, Spot +85

Feats: Hover, Flyby Attack, Power Attack, Cleave, Snatch, Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (Evocation), Alertness, Wingover, Quicken Spell-Like Ability, Sunder, 7 more

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Challenge Rating: 28
Alignment: Always lawful good

SA–Breath Weapon (Su): Cone of fire, 70 feet long, every 1d4 rounds; damage 24d10, Reflex half DC 58. This dragon can use a cone of weakening gas instead, forcing subjects who fail a Fortitude save to take 12 points of temporary Strength damage.

SA–Frightful Presence (Ex): Dragons can unsettle foes with their mere presence. This ability takes effect automatically (radius 360 ft) whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. A potentially affected creature (one with less than 71 HD) that succeeds at a Will save (DC 56) remains immune to that dragon's frightful presence for one day. On a failure, creatures with 4 or fewer HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with more than 5 HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

SA–Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day - polymorph self and bless; 1/day - geas/quest, sunburst, foresight.

SA–Luck Bonus (Sp): Once per day the dragon can touch one gem (usually embedded in the dragon's hide) and enchant it to bring good luck. As long as the dragon carries the gem, it and every good creature in a 120 foot radius receives a +1 luck bonus as per stone of good luck. If the dragon gives the gem to another creature, only the bearer gets the bonus. The enchantment lasts 1d3+36 hours but ends if the gem is destroyed.

SA–Detect Gems (Sp): 3/day, the dragon can use this ability. Similar to detect magic, this spell finds only gems. Studying for one round reveals presence or absence of gems, 2 rounds reveals exact number of gems, and 3 rounds reveals exact location, type, and value.

SA–Half-Celestial Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day-protection from evil, holy aura; 1/day-bless, aid, detect evil, cure serious wounds, neutralize poison, holy smite, remove disease, dispel evil, holy word, hallow, symbol, summon monster IX (celestials only), resurrection.

SQ–Immunities (Ex): Immune to acid, cold, disease, electricity, sleep, paralysis.

SQ–Water Breathing (Ex): This dragon can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use its breath weapons, spells, and other abilities while submerged.

SQ–Blindsight (Ex): Dragons can ascertain creatures by nonvisual means (mostly hearing and scent, but also by noticing vibrations and other environmental clues); this dragon's range is 360 feet.

SQ–Keen Senses (Ex): Dragons can see four times as well as humans in low-light conditions and twice as well in normal light. They also have darkvision (range 1200 feet).

Spells Known (cast 6/9/9/9/8/8/8/8/7/5; as a level 19 sorcerer):

0–detect magic, resistance, detect poison, read magic, dancing lights, ghost sound, mage hand, open/close, mending; 1–endure elements, mage armor, divine favor, cure light wounds, shield; 2–bull's strength, cat's grace, blur, endurance, fog cloud; 3–haste, dispel magic, protection from elements, slow; 4–spell immunity, dimension door, improved invisibility, detect scrying; 5–cloudkill, righteous might, dominate person, teleport; 6–heal, greater dispelling, harm; 7–spell turning, destruction, greater scrying; 8–mass charm, maze, protection from spells; 9–miracle, foresight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that's if it's using NOTHING from it's horde. Add in some precast spells like mage armor, divine favor, shield, bull's strength, cat's grace, blur, endurance, haste, improved invisibility, righteous might, spell turning, and protection from spells and it's even more ugly.

The PHB has nothing that can compete with that. The DMG has nothing that can compete with that. Maybe a sphere of annihilation, but you'd just end up getting annihilated by it because you now don't have access to spells like fox's cunning etc.

Dead PC!

with everything in the phb even using the broken version of harm you have 0 chance since you said ANY dragon figure it is gonna have max hp and with no con boost you are looking at 1775 hit points and you will have to over come its fear aura to even act!

snif snif - I smell toast

 

[Darkness]

Wish.

"I wish this dragon were dead."

done.

Yeah, would that it was so easy.

 

[Zappo]

So, if the cleric wins initiative, what prevents him from using Time Stop + Haste to obtain enough actions to dispel anything the dragon might have cast on him and toss a dozen Harms on it - so that at least one will bypass the SR? BTW, the dragon fear only makes you shaken, it doesn't prevent you from acting or anything like that, and with Harm it could have more hit points than Italy's deficit and it still wouldn't matter. With the starting wealth of an 18th level character, he can buy as many scrolls as he needs to kill the dragon by building a ziggurat over it while Time Stopped, if he wanted.

Initiative for the cleric could be +14 (elf cleric, starts with 20 DEX, raises it 4 points with levels to 24, +6 gloves of dex, not using tomes, improved init.)

Really, I want to be convinced that Harm, Haste and Time Stop aren't so monstrously broken that they give a character a very good chance of beating a creature 10 CRs higher than his level, but...

 

[Default Name Player]

Wish.

"I wish this dragon were dead."

done.

DM interprets the wish as:

UNDEAD GREAT WYRM HALF-CELESTIAL GOLD DRAGON

 

[MerakSpielman]

DM interprets the wish as:

UNDEAD GREAT WYRM HALF-CELESTIAL GOLD DRAGON

Hmmm... Better do that wishing from inside a Mordenkinen's Magnificent Mansion and repeat until you get it right...

"I wish the dragon would become very depressed about life and actually WANT me to kill it?"

I'm sure I could think of something...

 

[Victim]

Re: dragon

with everything in the phb even using the broken version of harm you have 0 chance since you said ANY dragon figure it is gonna have max hp and with no con boost you are looking at 1775 hit points and you will have to over come its fear aura to even act!

snif snif - I smell toast

No you don't. While the -2 from being shaken is problematic, you can still do whatever you want. Only crappy creatures with no HD become paniced.

Don't forget Dust of Sneezing and choking. 5d4 rounds of stun is better than a Time Stop.

 

[Zappo]

Re: Re: dragon

Don't forget Dust of Sneezing and choking. 5d4 rounds of stun is better than a Time Stop.

Where is that? If it does that with no save, it's more broken than Harm.