Help with Double Weapon rules.

[Kaledor]

I'm trying to figure out 4E's version of the double weapon (too used to 3.5 and Pathfinder).

Someone recommended the Urgosh to me... so here's my attempt at understanding. (Background: I've got a Barbarian-Ranger, he needs to be able to switch from single 2Handed weapon to two-weapon fighting for some of his powers)


The Urgosh is a double weapon with the stout and defensive abilities. Main head: d12, other end: d6 (1st question: Is it autmatically "Off-hand"?)

I hold the weapon in both hands. At any given point in a round I can decide between striking with a single end (using the Stout property... 2nd question: do I get the +1 extra damage for wielding it two-handed?) --OR-- I can decide to use both ends.

So, if a power requires two melee weapon attacks (like a Ranger melee power), I would attack with the d12 and the d6. If a power called for a single 2Handed melee attack (like a Barbarian power), I would attack with the d12 end.


Last question: How does the Defensive property apply? Does it apply as long as I hold the Urgosh? (The line about holding a weapon in the other hand is throwing me... I'd assume I'd always get the bonus, b/c with a double weapon you're automatically holding it in both hands).

(Man, I sound clueless...)

 

[frogged]

I'll try to answer your questions:

The Urgosh is a double weapon with the stout and defensive abilities. Main head: d12, other end: d6 (1st question: Is it autmatically "Off-hand"?)

The answer to your question is yes*, the spear end is the off-hand side.

I hold the weapon in both hands. At any given point in a round I can decide between striking with a single end (using the Stout property... 2nd question: do I get the +1 extra damage for wielding it two-handed?) --OR-- I can decide to use both ends.

Since it has the stout property, at any time you can treat your character as either wielding a two-handed weapon, or wielding a weapon in each hand.

I am not sure what you are asking when you mention extra damage. Is it possible you are using a rule from a different edition or confusing two-handed weapons with versatile weapons? There is no innate bonus to damage from wielding a two handed weapon (though there may be class features/feats/powers/etc. which might provide a bonus). There is only the weapon property "versatile", which is found on one-handed weapons, that gives a bonus to damage when wielding the normally one-handed weapon in both hands.

So, if a power requires two melee weapon attacks (like a Ranger melee power), I would attack with the d12 and the d6. If a power called for a single 2Handed melee attack (like a Barbarian power), I would attack with the d12 end.

This is correct.

Last question: How does the Defensive property apply? Does it apply as long as I hold the Urgosh? (The line about holding a weapon in the other hand is throwing me... I'd assume I'd always get the bonus, b/c with a double weapon you're automatically holding it in both hands).

As long as you are wielding the weapon in both hands, the defensive property applies. You are correct that since the Urgrosh counts as wielding a weapon in each hand it satisfies the defensive property requirement. The defensive property is worded that way because it can also be found on one-handed weapons.



*Technically, double weapons do not have a set "off-hand" side, but the Urgrosh is a special case. Unlike most other double weapons which have the off-hand property on both ends, only the secondary spear end of the Urgrosh has the off-hand property. You normally can not wield a weapon in your off hand unless it has the off-hand property, so most characters can only wield an Urgrosh one way, with the spear in the off hand. However, if for some reason a character can wield non off-hand weapons in their off-hand, then they could choose either end of the Urgrosh as the "off-hand side". One example of this is the Two-Blade Fighting Style class feature that a ranger can select, and since you mentioned your character was part Ranger I felt it might be worth it to give you the rules for this strange corner case.

 

[abyssaldeath]

*Technically, double weapons do not have a set "off-hand" side, but the Urgrosh is a special case. Unlike most other double weapons which have the off-hand property on both ends, only the secondary spear end of the Urgrosh has the off-hand property.

Actually, after the double-weapon update, only the double-sword has the off-hand property on both sides.

 

[Kaledor]

I am not sure what you are asking when you mention extra damage. Is it possible you are using a rule from a different edition or confusing two-handed weapons with versatile weapons?

Ugg... that was it completely. I was thinking of versatile 1-handed weapons not 2handed ones. I knew there was a time when I had been adding one to the damage... but was remembering why incorrectly


And thanks for the replies!
Very helpful.