D&D 5E Help with Mastercrafting "Short" (i.e. Simple) rules for armor and weapons
dave2008
Legend
It sounds like you have an idea of what you want to do, but maybe my ideas and provoke some ideas for your system as well.
Undrave
Legend
I was thinking of three stages when it comes to magic items: design, fabricate, and finish. That is what I am working on for my current pdf. Checks are involved, as well as time and money and maybe a side quest or two.
No, but if I get time today or tomorrow I'll search for it. Thanks!
Here ya go: Crafting a Crafting System – The Angry GM
Start at the top and read down... it is quite a lot of work. He's almost done though, so you could always just take his system once it's done.
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TheSword
Legend
I like to have special materials in the game for a number of reasons. Firstly they are useful, second they add verisimilitude, third they are mysterious, fourth that act as a nice halfway house for magic items.
I‘m home brewing the star metals from PF1 for a Runelords/Shattered Star campaign.
I decided hot Siccatite dealt an additional +1 fire damage and overcame resistance to non magical weapons possessed by plant or cold based creatures. Relatively minor but still flavorful.
Adamantine will either allow the weapon to ignore a single point of Armour, natural or otherwise (effectively +1 to hit) and possibly ignore resistance to bludgeoning, slashing or piercing damage of physical objects.
Mithral is probably just light and more durable silver when it comes to weapons.
I‘m home brewing the star metals from PF1 for a Runelords/Shattered Star campaign.
I decided hot Siccatite dealt an additional +1 fire damage and overcame resistance to non magical weapons possessed by plant or cold based creatures. Relatively minor but still flavorful.
Adamantine will either allow the weapon to ignore a single point of Armour, natural or otherwise (effectively +1 to hit) and possibly ignore resistance to bludgeoning, slashing or piercing damage of physical objects.
Mithral is probably just light and more durable silver when it comes to weapons.
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DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Well, I know what I want to do for my 5E supplement (if I ever complete it LOL), but for me, especially in 5E, the balance becomes between having some options and things for mastercraft weapons without going crazy and having them basically as non-magical magic items.
FWIW I think the idea of "common" magic items in a fantasy game hurts the game overall. If magic (of whatever sort) isn't at least rare, it takes away some of the mystic of it IMO.
Anyway, since I do want a very basic system (for this thread anyway), yes, I was thinking of checks about the range you outlined.
For now, I want to steer away from crafting, and more focus on what benefits mastercrafting could grant (some were outlined in the OP):
+1 to hit
+1 to damage
+1 to AC
double item HP
grant item advantage on saves
half item weight (gains finesse property maybe?)
x1.5 item weight (gains heavy property maybe? perhaps requires min STR if a two-handed weapon?)
balanced (increases range for ranged or thrown weapons?)
... and whatever else I can think of...
Now, what impact would having a mastercraft property have on item cost (and thus time to construct)? This is difficult because how much gold is in any game varies greatly IME. Some DMs/games are stingy and others are overly generous.
@dnd4vr
I tried making a post based on what you seemed to be looking for and asked for. I had very fun, but got carried away with worldbuilding aspects and such as well. In the end, there is no way I can describe it as short. That is why I took the whole original post, hid it behind the spoiler tag and added this text.
I tried making a post based on what you seemed to be looking for and asked for. I had very fun, but got carried away with worldbuilding aspects and such as well. In the end, there is no way I can describe it as short. That is why I took the whole original post, hid it behind the spoiler tag and added this text.
Ok, now I think I have more of an idea of what you are looking for.
I'll try to come up with ideas as I write, starting with some assumptions and goals.
Assumption 1: Balance between classes is not an issue. It is fine if martial classes have trouble hurting certain monsters because the monsters have resistance or immunity. No corresponding nerf is needed for spellcasters for balance reasons.
Assumption 2: Properties of uncommon magic item are perfectly fine to duplicate if there is a good story reason for why they are not actually magic.
Assumption 3: The house rule that bows and crossbows do not add dexterity modifier to damage is in place.
Assumption 4: Artificers are allowed in the game with no additional house rules.
Aim 1: Create items that are attractive, despite not being magic.
Aim 2: Make it hard for PCs to create magic items themselves.
My first idea is to create three groups of items: bespoke, masterwork, near-magical.
The "bespoke" category is inspired by the comment about all masterwork items being custom-made. This category would be much cheaper and common than actual masterwork items, but still provide some minor benefits to the person the item is created for. Actual masterwork items would also be bespoke and provide the same benefits but would also have additional properties and large additional cost. This category should probably also be combined with the use of the Equipment sizes variant rule on page 144 in the PHB.
The "masterwork" category is the first that can be enchanted, might be made of special materials and fit into the category of "highest quality armor and weapons money can buy". This means that very few individuals can make them, and therefore they come with added challenges in terms of getting them.
The "near-magical" category is for those items that more or less replicate the effects of magical items. The potential for enchantment and the perks of high quality remain from the masterwork category, but they come with even more cost and challenges to procurement.
Ideas for bespoke items:
These are made to order, and thus require time in addition to money to get. Not only does the maker need time to create the item, but the buyer might need to visit one or more time during the process in order to check measurements or other details of the design.
These include some unmodified items from the PHB, such as signet rings (5 gp), silvered weapons (100 sp = 10 gp added to the cost of the item) as well as default breastplate (400 gp), half plate (750 gp) and plate armor (1500 gp). Other items should probably have a cost added to them in return for some added benefit. Suitable additions in terms of cost would probably be in the range of 5-15 gp or as addition of 10-50 % of the base price (inspired by the Equipment sizes variant rule). Bespoke chain mail or scale mail might not give disadvantage on stealth checks.
Visibly bespoke items such as well-fitting clothes, personalised weapons and the like will also either grant advantage on charisma ability checks where social standing is relevant, or change the default attitude of others in such instances from indifferent to friendly (as per DMG pages 244-245).
I would probably also put "add strength modifier to damage of bows" as a benefit in this category.
Ideas for masterwork items:
Masterwork items are expensive and hard to make. Hence, the masters who can make them will be located where they have access to a relatively large pool of potential customers despite the price, they will probably have lots of help for the easier parts of the work, they have a reputation to uphold and they will not have time for just any rabble who might come in from the street. The places where such masters can be found are therefore the largest cities or the courts of wealthy nobles and royalty.
In order to get access to such a master, the PCs must either have a good standing with the patron of a master in a court or convince the master that they are worth talking to. A few likely avenues would be to have a reputation as heroes (especially at level 5+), having some kind of noble or wealthy contacts vouching for them or simply showing up all dressed in (bespoke) fine clothes and with money to show. The noble background feature position of privilege should also work.
Once convinced that the characters can pay with sufficiently honestly acquired funds, the master can offer very beneficial items. The price would obviously be dependent on the type of item, but maybe somewhere in the range of 50-500 gp would be a suitable additional price (not counting the cost of getting the good reputation in the first place).
If the characters want to create items like these on their own, they will need expertise in the relevant skill, as well as a suitable work area. For armour or weapons, such an area would be a workshop that they either rent, own or get to borrow through contacts or as a reward for some adventure. A village smithy would not be enough. A castle might have the required workplace, or else a city workshop where guild approval is required.
All items in this category should probably have extra hit points and AC if those are commonly used. Acid resistance for weapons and armour might also be relevant (so they need twice the number of hits from a rust monster etc before degrading). Advantage on charisma ability checks would also be reasonable.
Mithril and adamantine weapons would go in this category (with additional cost increase for the material and increased AC as per DMG page 246). Mithril might be half weight, gain the finesse property or lose the heavy property, while I think some monsters have resistance or immunity against non-adamantine weapons.
For heavy armour, either losing the strength requirement or not granting disadvantage on stealth checks could be suitable benefits (but not both at the same time).
If it wasn't for sneak attack, I would consider weapons granting advantage as a possibility in this category.
The "half magic item" parts would go here as well as feats. So weapons with +1 to attack rolls OR damage rolls (but not both) are found here. Removing the loading property could fit. Heavy armour granting damage reduction (as in Heavy armor master) and medium armour allowing the wearer to add the dexterity modifier up to max 3 (instead of up to max 2) as in medium armor master. Chain shirts that are considered light armour in terms of determining if a creature is proficient with them (inspired by Elven chain).
Items such as locks that have a DC would have higher DCs if they are masterwork.
The lack of masterwork items would also be a reason for why artificer infusions are not permanent. Masterwork items are a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite for the magic to actually stick to the item. The thing that makes the infusion become permanent would also cost money.
Last, ideas for "near-magical" items:
These add additional cost compared to masterwork items and are based on common and uncommon magic items. In contrast to true magic items, these items can still be subject to destruction by rust monsters, the shatter spell or simply intentional violence. Maybe give them a damage threshold, below which damage does not actually affect it at all.
Suitable magic items for conversion
-adamantine armor (due to material)
-Mithril armor (due to material)
-weapon +1 (perfectly balanced)
-ammunition +1 (as for weapon)
-Boots of elvenkind (well-crafted and soft)
-Saddle of the cavalier (fits both rider and mount perfectly)
-Shield +1 (easier to move about)
-Spellcasting focus +1 (inspired by rod of the pact keeper and wand of the war mage, but with one less benefit)
For near-magical items and artificer infusions of masterwork items, the extra part to make the magic stick might be a source of strong magic and a costly component such as gemstones or residiuum (as per D&D 4e magic item creation rules). Other items might follow the rules for magic item creation in XGtE, but with the added requirement of starting out with a masterwork item. Other possible additional requirements could be a suitable work area (see workshop requirement for masterwork items), proficiency or even expertise in arcana and a check.
I'll try to come up with ideas as I write, starting with some assumptions and goals.
Assumption 1: Balance between classes is not an issue. It is fine if martial classes have trouble hurting certain monsters because the monsters have resistance or immunity. No corresponding nerf is needed for spellcasters for balance reasons.
Assumption 2: Properties of uncommon magic item are perfectly fine to duplicate if there is a good story reason for why they are not actually magic.
Assumption 3: The house rule that bows and crossbows do not add dexterity modifier to damage is in place.
Assumption 4: Artificers are allowed in the game with no additional house rules.
Aim 1: Create items that are attractive, despite not being magic.
Aim 2: Make it hard for PCs to create magic items themselves.
My first idea is to create three groups of items: bespoke, masterwork, near-magical.
The "bespoke" category is inspired by the comment about all masterwork items being custom-made. This category would be much cheaper and common than actual masterwork items, but still provide some minor benefits to the person the item is created for. Actual masterwork items would also be bespoke and provide the same benefits but would also have additional properties and large additional cost. This category should probably also be combined with the use of the Equipment sizes variant rule on page 144 in the PHB.
The "masterwork" category is the first that can be enchanted, might be made of special materials and fit into the category of "highest quality armor and weapons money can buy". This means that very few individuals can make them, and therefore they come with added challenges in terms of getting them.
The "near-magical" category is for those items that more or less replicate the effects of magical items. The potential for enchantment and the perks of high quality remain from the masterwork category, but they come with even more cost and challenges to procurement.
Ideas for bespoke items:
These are made to order, and thus require time in addition to money to get. Not only does the maker need time to create the item, but the buyer might need to visit one or more time during the process in order to check measurements or other details of the design.
These include some unmodified items from the PHB, such as signet rings (5 gp), silvered weapons (100 sp = 10 gp added to the cost of the item) as well as default breastplate (400 gp), half plate (750 gp) and plate armor (1500 gp). Other items should probably have a cost added to them in return for some added benefit. Suitable additions in terms of cost would probably be in the range of 5-15 gp or as addition of 10-50 % of the base price (inspired by the Equipment sizes variant rule). Bespoke chain mail or scale mail might not give disadvantage on stealth checks.
Visibly bespoke items such as well-fitting clothes, personalised weapons and the like will also either grant advantage on charisma ability checks where social standing is relevant, or change the default attitude of others in such instances from indifferent to friendly (as per DMG pages 244-245).
I would probably also put "add strength modifier to damage of bows" as a benefit in this category.
Ideas for masterwork items:
Masterwork items are expensive and hard to make. Hence, the masters who can make them will be located where they have access to a relatively large pool of potential customers despite the price, they will probably have lots of help for the easier parts of the work, they have a reputation to uphold and they will not have time for just any rabble who might come in from the street. The places where such masters can be found are therefore the largest cities or the courts of wealthy nobles and royalty.
In order to get access to such a master, the PCs must either have a good standing with the patron of a master in a court or convince the master that they are worth talking to. A few likely avenues would be to have a reputation as heroes (especially at level 5+), having some kind of noble or wealthy contacts vouching for them or simply showing up all dressed in (bespoke) fine clothes and with money to show. The noble background feature position of privilege should also work.
Once convinced that the characters can pay with sufficiently honestly acquired funds, the master can offer very beneficial items. The price would obviously be dependent on the type of item, but maybe somewhere in the range of 50-500 gp would be a suitable additional price (not counting the cost of getting the good reputation in the first place).
If the characters want to create items like these on their own, they will need expertise in the relevant skill, as well as a suitable work area. For armour or weapons, such an area would be a workshop that they either rent, own or get to borrow through contacts or as a reward for some adventure. A village smithy would not be enough. A castle might have the required workplace, or else a city workshop where guild approval is required.
All items in this category should probably have extra hit points and AC if those are commonly used. Acid resistance for weapons and armour might also be relevant (so they need twice the number of hits from a rust monster etc before degrading). Advantage on charisma ability checks would also be reasonable.
Mithril and adamantine weapons would go in this category (with additional cost increase for the material and increased AC as per DMG page 246). Mithril might be half weight, gain the finesse property or lose the heavy property, while I think some monsters have resistance or immunity against non-adamantine weapons.
For heavy armour, either losing the strength requirement or not granting disadvantage on stealth checks could be suitable benefits (but not both at the same time).
If it wasn't for sneak attack, I would consider weapons granting advantage as a possibility in this category.
The "half magic item" parts would go here as well as feats. So weapons with +1 to attack rolls OR damage rolls (but not both) are found here. Removing the loading property could fit. Heavy armour granting damage reduction (as in Heavy armor master) and medium armour allowing the wearer to add the dexterity modifier up to max 3 (instead of up to max 2) as in medium armor master. Chain shirts that are considered light armour in terms of determining if a creature is proficient with them (inspired by Elven chain).
Items such as locks that have a DC would have higher DCs if they are masterwork.
The lack of masterwork items would also be a reason for why artificer infusions are not permanent. Masterwork items are a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite for the magic to actually stick to the item. The thing that makes the infusion become permanent would also cost money.
Last, ideas for "near-magical" items:
These add additional cost compared to masterwork items and are based on common and uncommon magic items. In contrast to true magic items, these items can still be subject to destruction by rust monsters, the shatter spell or simply intentional violence. Maybe give them a damage threshold, below which damage does not actually affect it at all.
Suitable magic items for conversion
-adamantine armor (due to material)
-Mithril armor (due to material)
-weapon +1 (perfectly balanced)
-ammunition +1 (as for weapon)
-Boots of elvenkind (well-crafted and soft)
-Saddle of the cavalier (fits both rider and mount perfectly)
-Shield +1 (easier to move about)
-Spellcasting focus +1 (inspired by rod of the pact keeper and wand of the war mage, but with one less benefit)
For near-magical items and artificer infusions of masterwork items, the extra part to make the magic stick might be a source of strong magic and a costly component such as gemstones or residiuum (as per D&D 4e magic item creation rules). Other items might follow the rules for magic item creation in XGtE, but with the added requirement of starting out with a masterwork item. Other possible additional requirements could be a suitable work area (see workshop requirement for masterwork items), proficiency or even expertise in arcana and a check.
aco175
Legend
I tend to have weapons with other abilities that are magical, but not just a +1. Might not be just masterwork though. Something like a returning dagger, or a fast-loading crossbow are easy to hand out and not break anything. You could also look at some of the old things like cold iron hitting few better or such.
The cost of having a masterwork should be something like 10x or even 20x the normal cost. This means that a longsword would cost 150-300gp. This may mean that most PCs wait until 3rd level before they can afford it. This is around the same time I tend to give out some sort of magic weapon, usually a +0 type with something.
I could see a limit on the number of masterwork smiths that are able to make things. You could come up with a few abilities and give them to races, so that a dwarf smith could make laminated mithral that grants +1 hit and damage. Elves could have secret formula to make strength bows or longswords that never get dull and stays sharp, granting +1 to hit. There could be some story with guarding these secrets and making weapons for only certain people and such.
The cost of having a masterwork should be something like 10x or even 20x the normal cost. This means that a longsword would cost 150-300gp. This may mean that most PCs wait until 3rd level before they can afford it. This is around the same time I tend to give out some sort of magic weapon, usually a +0 type with something.
I could see a limit on the number of masterwork smiths that are able to make things. You could come up with a few abilities and give them to races, so that a dwarf smith could make laminated mithral that grants +1 hit and damage. Elves could have secret formula to make strength bows or longswords that never get dull and stays sharp, granting +1 to hit. There could be some story with guarding these secrets and making weapons for only certain people and such.
Laurefindel
Legend
While this may seem like an oversimplification, why not simply decouple weapon bonus from the magic property.
maybe your masterwork weapon is a +1 weapon, only it doesn’t bypass magic damage resistance. +2 could be a great masterwork, while a +3 weapon is the accomplishment of a lifetime for a great master Artisan.
maybe your masterwork weapon is a +1 weapon, only it doesn’t bypass magic damage resistance. +2 could be a great masterwork, while a +3 weapon is the accomplishment of a lifetime for a great master Artisan.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Excellent stuff here. I'll have to give it all some thought before I respond more--maybe later tonight. Thanks!
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
While good general magic items, this is precisely the sort of (what I call) "mundane-magic" I want to avoid personally. Please understand there is nothing wrong with it, just not for me. I am not worried about items breaking the game, but I do want them to be unique and special. A returning dagger, while very useful certainly, falls into the realm of being so minor it won't matter other than removing a mundane restriction from the game.
IOW, this is something akin to the Goodberry spell. It is a great spell, highly useful, and the fact it provides food/nurtionment so PCs don't have to worry about rations anymore is what hurts the game. I know it a lot of groups don't want to bother with such mundane issues, but if PCs still have to deal with the mundane (like carrying around enough food!), it makes dealing with the magical even more special. Hopefully, that makes some sort of sense (however twisted and not mainstream nowadays...).
Oh, I forgot cold iron/ forged weapons! Thanks for bringing that up.
I like a lot of these ideas. It reminds me of the magical armor dwarven plate. I could see a +1 AC armor being a non-magical version of that. Elves that can craft greatsword so they have the finesse property to utilize their dexterity instead of relying on brute strength, etc.
Good stuff!
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