D&D 5E Hex Shenanigans

[Gadget]

Just to be absolutely clear, the spell Hex--as has been pointed out before in this thread--does not require chicken shenanigans to maintain over multiple target for the duration of the spell. The text of the spell states that the caster "can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature."

Notice it does not say next turn. So you can cast in the first battle of the day, knock the target down to 0 hp, take a short rest and gain the spell slot back, then move the hex to a new target in the next battle as long as concentration is maintained and the duration has not expired.

 

[Ashrym]

You do not have to do this. Once the previous target is dead, you can just keep the spell active but "on ice," and pick a new target as a bonus action the next time you're in combat. Per @Delazar, the design intent of hex at higher levels is that you can maintain it through multiple encounters (as long as you hold concentration).

And that's the real hex killer. It happens a lot both involuntary (took damage) or voluntary (needed concentration for something else).

 

[Oofta]

If the only issue is concentration then the chicken is not relevant.

I've ruled that you can't always hold concentration for a long time - I may start asking for concentration checks at a certain point. It's one thing to concentrate on something for a minute or two another to concentrate for an hour depending on the situation.

 

[NotAYakk]

"Move it to a chicken" does not do anything useful. Next combat includes plenty of "subsequent turn".

The real chicken trick is this:

Have a long rest. Wake up, refreshed. Cast hex on a chicken. Kill the chicken.

Take a short rest, keeping concentration on hex. You now have all of your spell slots back, and are concentrating on hex.

Now, this is a bit bag of rats. But the fact you are sacrificing animals to power your Warlock magic makes it a bit better.

---

I've ruled that you can't always hold concentration for a long time - I may start asking for concentration checks at a certain point. It's one thing to concentrate on something for a minute or two another to concentrate for an hour depending on the situation.

So, we have a spell that lasts 1 hour baseline. It is a concentration spell. And you rule "no, you cannot concentrate that long".

At higher levels:

When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours.
When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.

it lasts 8 to 24 hours.

If it is impossible to concentrate on a spell for 8 to 24 hours, why have a concentration spell that upgrades to 8 or 24 hours with higher level slots?

Your poor players.

I mean, it would be one thing if you said "after considering things, I think Warlocks are too powerful, and have too many spell slots, and Hex is also too strong".

Heck, even "you cannot concentrate while doing a short rest" is reasonable. It does hurt Warlocks and Rangers mainly, but in a game where you get 5+ short rests per long rest and piles of wilderness exploration that might not be a bad plan.

 

[Oofta]

"Move it to a chicken" does not do anything useful. Next combat includes plenty of "subsequent turn".

The real chicken trick is this:

Have a long rest. Wake up, refreshed. Cast hex on a chicken. Kill the chicken.

Take a short rest, keeping concentration on hex. You now have all of your spell slots back, and are concentrating on hex.

Now, this is a bit bag of rats. But the fact you are sacrificing animals to power your Warlock magic makes it a bit better.

---


So, we have a spell that lasts 1 hour baseline. It is a concentration spell. And you rule "no, you cannot concentrate that long".

At higher levels:

it lasts 8 to 24 hours.

If it is impossible to concentrate on a spell for 8 to 24 hours, why have a concentration spell that upgrades to 8 or 24 hours with higher level slots?

Your poor players.

I mean, it would be one thing if you said "after considering things, I think Warlocks are too powerful, and have too many spell slots, and Hex is also too strong".

Heck, even "you cannot concentrate while doing a short rest" is reasonable. It does hurt Warlocks and Rangers mainly, but in a game where you get 5+ short rests per long rest and piles of wilderness exploration that might not be a bad plan.

As I said, it's very situational.

As far as my "poor players" I get told on a regular basis how fun my games are. So stop playing the "woe is me I can't exploit a cheesy loophole in the rules".

Feel free to rule differently.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I've ruled that you can't always hold concentration for a long time - I may start asking for concentration checks at a certain point. It's one thing to concentrate on something for a minute or two another to concentrate for an hour depending on the situation.

This is obviously up to you, but many, many spells in 5E have durations of an hour (or longer), and are Concentration-dependent.

If you start forcing checks to keep those going, without damage, without needing to Concentrate on something else and so on, all the designed limitations are being added to. This will disproportionately harm some classes. Druids, for example, have a vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast array of Concentration spells, many of them with 1hr or more durations. Find the Path, for example, is Concentration and has a 1 day duration. Those spells are balanced on the assumption that if they fail, it's because the player got damaged or messed up somehow (also some of them just shouldn't be concentration spells but that's a separate discussion).

But hey, at least for once a DM is making up a rule that nerfs casters. 95% of made-up rules from DMs seem to inconvenience non-caster either solely, or vastly more than casters!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

As far as my "poor players" I get told on a regular basis how fun my games are. So stop playing the "woe is me I can't exploit a cheesy loophole in the rules".

So designed durations of spells that are clearly stated are "cheesy loopholes"? What? I mean, I get that you're defensive because he zinged your game, but come on, those are not "cheesy loopholes", they're clearly both RAW and RAI. You've got a houserule, that's fine. But you're the one with a houserule, not everyone else, and there's no "cheesy loophole".

 

[Oofta]

So designed durations of spells that are clearly stated are "cheesy loopholes"? What? I mean, I get that you're defensive because he zinged your game, but come on, those are not "cheesy loopholes", they're clearly both RAW and RAI. You've got a houserule, that's fine. But you're the one with a houserule, not everyone else, and there's no "cheesy loophole".

I was referring to the hex a chicken and get all your spells back when you wake up. You can't sleep while maintaining concentration for one. Second, I don't allow "bag of rats" tricks in my campaign.

Beyond that, feel free to run things differently.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I was referring to the hex a chicken and get all your spells back when you wake up. You can't sleep while maintaining concentration for one. Second, I don't allow "bag of rats" tricks in my campaign.

Beyond that, feel free to run things differently.

As pointed out, the whole chicken this is down to people not understanding how the spell works, and not reading carefully.

There's no "cheesy loophole". RAW/RAI (as confirmed by Crawford and by reading the blimmin' spell!) is that you can only move it to a new target after the first one goes to 0 HP. But you can do that at any time after the last Hex'd guy hit 0 whilst you still have duration. However long the duration is, is how long you can maintain Hex, barring Concentration being broken. Re: Hex:

"At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours. "

That's not a mistake. That's not a "loophole". The duration is clearly intended to be basically "all day until Concentration is broken" (which sleep breaks, note) when cast at 4th level or higher.

You can add random checks to mess with this, but why? It's RAW and RAI that it lasts that long. It doesn't take any bloody chickens!

 

[Oofta]

As pointed out, the whole chicken this is down to people not understanding how the spell works, and not reading carefully.

There's no "cheesy loophole". RAW/RAI (as confirmed by Crawford and by reading the blimmin' spell!) is that you can only move it to a new target after the first one goes to 0 HP. But you can do that at any time after the last Hex'd guy hit 0. However long the duration is, is how long you can maintain Hex, barring Concentration being broken. Re: Hex:

"At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours. "

That's not a mistake. That's not a "loophole". The duration is clearly intended to be basically "all day until Concentration is broken" (which sleep breaks, note).

You can add random checks to mess with this, but why? It's RAW and RAI that it lasts that long. It doesn't take any bloody chickens!

Feel free to rule differently. Have a good one.