HOLY CRAP! Please tell me I'm wrong.

[Keoki]

Right. Uncanny Dodge doesn't help. Improved Uncanny Dodge, however, does prevent one from being flanked except if it's by an enemy who has at least four more rogue levels than the target has barbarian levels.

Whoops! Beat me to it.

 

[diaglo]

What they said. I haven't found it to be a problem as a DM or a player. Dual-weapon wielding rogues seem to get in one good round of attacks, then the rest of the enemies cream them.

see the rogues gallery for my current PC. Fiddle Skipstone in the story hour in my sig.


part ranger/part rogue... all Dragon Hunter.

at 12th level i'm thinking of taking greater twf. and when hasted... i'll have 7 attacks per full attack.

 

[diaglo]

Wasn't that "first attack only" ruling in response to a rogue sneak attacking while under the effects of an invisibility spell? Unless he had one of the other conditions going for him (opponent flanked or denied dex bonus) the invisibility only grants his first attack sneak damage, any others are normal ones. That's where I seem to remember seeing it.

-Dave

i think you are thinking of Feint from the Bluff skill.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Make sure to also give them good opportunities to use their preferred tactic.

Of course... I may be coniving at times but I'm not a completely evil DM.

The main thing is that I want to encourage them to be creative. If they begin to rely on a mass of sneak attacks in every engagement I'll throw them a curve.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If they begin to rely on a mass of sneak attacks in every engagement I'll throw them a curve.

Undead, constructs, and concealment (Blur, heck, even mundane Darkness) are good curves when it comes to Sneak Attacks.

 

[rvalle]

i think you are thinking of Feint from the Bluff skill.

No, they have it right. Only the first attack is a sneak attack after which you 'pop' into view and the rest of the attacks go off normal. Unless you have improved inviso, the target is flanked ect, ect.

rv

 

[azmodean]

Just thought of an interesting combo, if a rogue with whirlwind attack were to get surrounded by viable targets for sneak attack, a med-level spellcaster could summon a ring of creatures surrounding the surrounders, allowing the rouge to perform a whirlwind sneak attack. (Yea, it's contrived, but it would still be pretty sweet if you could pull it off.) Looking at the spell description, it would require an empowered summon monster III, a bit high level for the effect.

 

[Mistwell]

Also don't forget about the Feint action listed under th Bluff skill, which can be done as a move-equivelent action with a feat from Complete Adventurer I believe. A sucessful feint will deny your opponant their dex bonus, thus allowing for a sneak attack.

 

[Lamoni]

Just thought of an interesting combo, if a rogue with whirlwind attack were to get surrounded by viable targets for sneak attack

Like a rogue with improved invisibility using a spiked chain? Of course, the rogue would have to be 12th level (or 15th level if not human) to get all the feats required for whirlwind attack. Add on another 3 levels if the rogue also wants weapon finess. That just means that a rogue could take out large sections of an army. Most of those feats would be wasted in our campaign where most encounters are against only a few high level enemies. The same thing could be done with great cleave rather than whirlwind attack, but great cleave is another wasted feat unless you fight hordes of enemies regularly.

However. If someone did spend the feats on it and they did get to use it, it would be quite a site to imagine. Enlarge the rogue for greater reach and he could do base+8d6 damage to up to 80 creatures that surrounded him. That scene in FotR in the mines of moria would have been a lot less intimidating. Then enter the balrog that is immune to sneak attack damage and the rogue wets his pants and runs for his life.

Edit: upon further reflection, a 10th level sorcerer could do the same or more damage from each of his fireballs and he'd be 5 levels lower. Therefore I think that proves that the rogue really did waste those feats. Warrior types should focus on dealing damage to single opponents and leave the crowd control to the spellcasters.

 

[shilsen]

Also don't forget about the Feint action listed under th Bluff skill, which can be done as a move-equivelent action with a feat from Complete Adventurer I believe. A sucessful feint will deny your opponant their dex bonus, thus allowing for a sneak attack.

You're thinking of Improved Feint, from the PHB.