Homophobic Elves

[The Blue Wizard]

I have tried to make this a non-offensive question..I hope the moderators agree!

I just got the Epic Level Handbook a few days ago (it took a little longer to make its way to Scotland), and I already think its fantastic. Interestingly, on page 118, in the Table of 100 Epic Adventure Ideas, number 23 mentions as hero of renown is to be wed to an elven prince (did the author mean heroine or was this an intentional homosexual reference?!). Anyway, the elven prince's family protests by claiming he is under a spell, which leads me to think that the author did mean for this to refer to a homosexual "union." Of all races to be homophobic, the elves seem to have the least ground to stand on. The androgynous picture of Corellon Larethian in Deities and Deimgods (p.63) proves my point! Maybe its my lack of experience in utilizing them, but sexuality issues make bad adventure hooks... at least for those of us who are not teenagers!

 

[Furn_Darkside]

I have often seen the word "hero" used to describe women.

 

[Katerek]

I think the term hero is being used there to denote a female. If it isn't, however, then that makes the storyline far more interesting in my mind.

I think the concept of non-traditional sexualities in DnD is very interesting considering that in a traditional pantheonic environment, especially one of fantasy bend, the core beliefs would be drastically different.

I think that this is great, and can be explored very maturely. One of the prime examples that I have seen lately is in the Book of the Righteous, they use the female designator more often than the male when deling with pronouns.

I realize that homosexuality is something of a taboo subject, but in a fantasy world with fantasy deities why WOULD it be considered wrong? I don't know if I am making my point very well or not.

In the game I run, homosexuality and bigamy are accepted norms and the NPC's have no problem with it becaus ethe church has never taught against it. In fact, the goddess of fertility teachs that multiple marital partners is good!

What I have found that is even more interesting, at least to me anywho, is that all of my players are heterosexual, and they have yet to have any problems with this either. In fact, they thought it was a novel and logical idea. The guy that plays the paladin of the party decided to make his character gay. It has all turned out very interestingly. to be honest, I was very impressed with my group.

 

[ForceUser]

The reality for me is that my players are uncomfortable roleplaying sexuality in any form in D&D, so I stay away from it. As a DM I would love to explore mature themes, but this has elicited only a lukewarm response at the table the few times I've tried it. You have to have a receptive player group; mine only want to beat up bad guys and get phat lewt, so that's what I give 'em.

 

[The Serge]

I think "hero," like "actor," is a word that is almost (if not already) gender-neutral. This is a good thing IMO. While there are differences between men and women (to be sure), I don't think there's need to allow language to needlessly increase those differences all of the time. (This is not an indictment on Latin and other languages that do have masculine and feminine identifiers. It is an opinion that supports English's evolution to more neutrality in language).

As for Homophobia and Elves... Well, I think a lot of people have sort of taken for granted that Elves are more likely to be gay than any other race despite the fact that in most books I've read, Elves are overtly heterosexual. Sensual? Certainly, but always heterosexual.

I've always seen Elves as bigamists/polygmaists (sp) and true bisexuals as opposed to Dwarves who are locked into very defined roles from the time they are born to the time they die.

 

[Xarlen]

I'll make comments of pervy hobbit fanciers, and homosexual likings in the Fellowship.

Ahem. Enough about the diaries!

In my game (Roughly 70% FR), Homosexuality is taboo, only in some areas. Then again, in some areas, it's fiercely patriarchical (Calimshan), and lots of different cultural and sociological differences. In Silverymoon, no, it wouldn't be homosexuality, since everyone there is liberal. But in places like Sembia, or Waterdeep, where there Is a higher class, this sort've thing COULD be taboo, in that it could ruin someone's reputation.

Infact, I did this as a story plot. The PCs were invited to a ball, after saving the city; the birthday of a nobleman's daughter, which was obvious he was announcing her weddible status. Of course, the renoun bard ended up dead, hidden beneath their gazebo (Of Dread!). As it turns out, the Bardess and the noblewoman's daughter were lovers, who planned on running out of town.

The plot grew much thicker, and they're still doing the murder mystery.

Man, did I get off topic.

I guess it just depends on the society; not all elven, humanoid, etc, things are the same. For example, some orc tribes could see homosexuality as more of a 'Dominance' structure. Sort've like in prison. Whereas Halflings would be more hedonistic, and laid back about it. Dwarves probably would heavily frown on it (They do have a horribly low population rate). Drow males would likely turn to one another, simply because they don't have to put up with females, while females would consider themselves 'higher'.

And, considering how some elves consider half-elves abominations, others accept it, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to say sexual norms can vary.

But, I think that'd be a cool epic plot, homosexual or non.

 

[Katerek]

That is another interesting point. There are other racial views to consider.

I agree with most of the points above about elven, dwarven, and halfling views.

What about inter-species relationships, we have half orcs and half elves, but those stories are always so sad. I wonder, what would the soceital views be on other mixes?

Also, I think it takes a certain mindset, and this type of subject matter definately isn't for everyone. To each his own I suppose.

As for the herroine thing, I have never liked that term 'cause it makes me think of smack.

 

[Xarlen]

Well, generally, I don't think anyone can breed inter-speciesly except for with humans (Unless you're a magical monster, in which case humans aren't the only generic thing you can pop a kid out with).

And, as it's been shown with a recent thread on Half-orcs, half orcs Don't have to always be the result of rape.

 

[Dr Midnight]

One of the prime examples that I have seen lately is in the Book of the Righteous, they use the female designator more often than the male when deling with pronouns.

I notice this any time I open a WotC book, including the core books. I'd have a hard time finding the male.

 

[The Blue Wizard]

Language Difference

Perhaps this "hero" or "heroine" difference is cultural. A friend of mine from Scotland assured me that the term "heroine" is alive and well in this culture. Being an American product, use of "hero" in the ELH may in fact have a neutral element. However, I am American and when I think of a female on stage I still think of "actress."

Re: sexuality issues in role playing ... I am a DM most of the time. Would players actually enjoy the DM "coing on" to them in a role playing situation? I do remember playing last summer back in the States with a work buddy of mine at his house. His wife was also playing and her character pursued my half-elf PC, making sexual advances all night. I was horrified when she eventually charmed my PC (missed the darn save!) and bedded me in order to produce my children! All this in front of her husband of less than a year! He seemed to have no problem with this kind of role playing at all. I felt dirty driving home that evening, it must be said (then again, I grew up in the mid-west...). Homosexuality in role playing might evoke even stronger feelings, but at the expense of players??