Homophobic Elves

[Xarlen]

If you can do it maturely, why not?

I won't suggest having the PCs thrown into a non-con orgy when they're captured by orcs, but if they can approach it, why not?

If your PCs don't care what the NPCs are interested in (Except doing evil, so they can smite them), then I doubt they'll care, so don't try.

But, I think it'd be interesting. For example (Sorry Nightfall ), in the Scarred Lands, there's two groups, all female Sorceresses in Albadia, and an all female Paladin group. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if there were some bi or homosexual women in these groups.

Also, think of an adventuring group. If you're traveling together for long periods of times, and facing perils together, you do get close. And, during stressful, life threatening situations, it's Not unheard of for people to turn to one another. It can happen if there's a female PC or NPC in the group (And they're willing for that sort of Roleplaying conotation, of course).

Remember, kids, D&D is a game, where we play fantasy characters. And those characters have emotions, desires, and opionons. Even if we don't have the same opinons (I sure as heck don't want to be uncivil and want all magic destroyed, but my Half-Orc Forsaker may think so), they do. So, why, if we're willing to let them act out heroics, not also act out themselves, in this degree? Our characters are characters in a large play, so to speak, who have their own motivations.

 

[the Jester]

I've always felt that different cultures should have different sexual norms in game, just as they do in real life. Elves tend to be very "polysexual" in my game- they'll do anything with anything if the mood strikes them (sex with unconsenting creatures usually is an exception though).

I like the points made above about drow.

I've always seen dwarves as the most homophobic demihuman race, due to their low reproductive rates and stodgy sense of tradition and propriety. Also, the dwarven emphasis on practicality leads me to think they'd see sex in very "practical" terms as well; it's FOR making babies, and any other use of sex is frivolous to them (imc).

I recently ran an orcish game that had lots of characters getting butt-raped by each other when they were unconscious. It was all done in fun and got a lot of laughs from the group (and in fact, there are a few references to this stuff in my story hour, such as when Sith finishes off an opponent who's bleeding out by having sex with her unconscious form and when the "don't touch me in my no-no place" club is mentioned). (DISCLAIMER: of course I realize that this is no laughing matter in real life, but when you're rp'ing orcs that are stupid and brutish, murder can be good for a laugh too.)

 

[Xarlen]

Oh! And, Welcome to the boards, Blue Wizard!

 

[The Blue Wizard]

Thank you!!! This is my first thread - not a topic I anticipated opening up with!

 

[Xarlen]

It's one way to set the tone.

 

[Great Umbrage]

Traditionally, I believe that the idea of homosexuality was taboo in a medieval setting under heavy Catholic influence, though I will not even go into Catholic priests and altar boys. However, in a classical setting such as Greek or Roman at their peaks, I would assume that there was no such taboo. In Greek culture, the educated men such as Socrates was running around with other men in togas...well, actually, they didn't believe that women were smart enough to understand love, and thus believed that only men could love. And their head honcho Zeus, as well as some other Greek gods, often had homosexual encounters, for instance the story of Zeus and the cupbearer he took a fancy to.

 

[The Serge]

What I've always found amusing about these conversations is learning the kinds of sexuality "experiments" players indulge in during their games.

In this thread already, we've heard of two or three cases in which (presumably) heterosexual male players have had games in which female homosexuality was a plot device. I've noticed in most of these kinds of discussions, straight men seem to "get off" from thinking about lesbians. I've always found this fascinating and most amusing. The ironic thing is, I don't know too many straight women who fantasize or have a fascination with gay men.

Secondly, I think it's interesting that a lot of what I've seen when it does come to male homosexuality is often about power and dominance, or a lack of masculinity/"man-hood" for one (or both) of the individuals involved. While I do think I understand what the poster was trying to convey, the Orcs comment strikes me as... well, almost inappropriate.

At the risk of getting into a ridiculous conversation, power in sex has absolutely nothing about sexuality. Prison inmates are a good example of this. Most rapists in prison are not gay or even bi-sexual. It's a reinforcement of power melded with a need for sexual release. When these men get out of prison, they no longer look to men for that sort of thing. The same would hold true in any society based upon power. The vast majority of men would be straight and the vast majority of women would be as well. Power struggles and sex would be heterosexually dominant. In the case of a matriarchal society, the women would demand the sexual attentions of the men, limit the fecundity men tend to exhibit, and severly punish those who stray in the same manner that men have limited women in patriarchal societies. Only when and if the other gender were not available for an extended period of time would one see a lot of homosexual behavior which would end as soon as the situation ended.

I don't include overt homosexuality in my games because I don't want people to be uncomfortable and (whether I like it or not), it's not the norm in our species. However, I do think that sexuality in other fantasy races would be as complex as it is in our own. Elves, being long-lived, don't have to worry about birth-rate and things of the sort. Plus, I've never seen Elves as stodgy and arrogant like they are popularly portrayed in Dragonlance. They're into pleasure and freedom (which is why I don't understand why their favored class is Wizard when Sorcerer would make more sense) in which everyone is happy. Homosexual encounters make sense given that outlook. Dwarves, on the other hand, seem to have birth-rate problems in most worlds, so homosexuality would be frowned upon because such an orientation limits viable parents to make more children... but it would still exist. I think Dwarves would find a way to legistlate it:

Silverbeard of the Bureau of Marriage: Aye, I know yer inta the men-folk, an' you can keep on a'goin after 'em as long as ya marry and 'av three youngens within three years. Sign 'ere.

Ironrod: ALRIGHT!

Orcs would probably be similar to Dwarves in that they are interested in having as many children as possible. But, being evil, they would probably kill homosexual women rather than homosexual men since the men can still reproduce, while the women (on a lower social strata) are behaving against the will of straight men... not to mention challenging the need for men.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

 

[Xarlen]

I was associating that very thing that Orcs would do it simply for a power situation, and not so much for pleasure.

And, frankly, I have no problems with Male homosexuality showing up in a game. If the situation arises, Fine, I'll use that.

The Lesbian situation I offered was more for a Twist, then anything. Sure, I could've made the bard a male, but then it would've been more Obvious, and I don't think the female PC in the group would be so vested in finding the killer, and the group needing to keep it hush hush, because if it got out, it could ruin the Daughter's reputation as an aristocrat. It just makes the plot thicker, IMHO, it's not gratitust.

As stated, I made mention of Drow males turning to one another, simply so they don't have to deal with the abuse from the Females. There could be a plot pertaining to that, eh? I wouldn't have a problem stipulating it. Hey, I've got friends of the persuasion; it's not like I'm dropping it in there for gratitust kicks.

But, enough about my defense.

As to women not having fantasize about gay men, there is a Very popular form of Anime about two gay men, that young female viewers seem to like a whole lot. Of course, it's anime. Go figure.

 

[S'mon]

I think American English has deviated from UK English in discarding female endings for Sorceress, Heroine, Actress etc, although there is some Politically Correct impetus to discard feminine endings here in the UK also. There are quite a lot of little differences like this - most people here still refuse to call my American wife 'Ms' the way she wants, she ends up being 'Miss' on most forms.

As for homosexuality - do what you like, it's your game! I doubt WoTC would ever knowingly refer to homosexuality in a scenario, though, it seems a big taboo in the USA still, despite the best efforts of HBO...

 

[The Serge]

My comments were not made soley based upon your examples, Xarlen. Just noting a trend. And, although the Orc thing did get to me a little, I was not trying to attack you, but to clarify how/why that sort of thing would develop.

You're referring to "Yaoi." And, I don't know which gender indulges in it more now... Most of "art" I've run across has been done by men... It is anime, though... No surprise there.