Honor Harrington

[Fade]

That was one of my turn-offs - it just seemed to contrived to me. But then, I'm a hard sci-fi fan. Other thing I didn't like about them is that Honor seems just too flawless - she's always professional and noble and accurate and her risks and wild guesses always pay off. Only read the first two books and it hasn't spoiled my enjoyment too much, but I get the feeling I'll get bored if she doesn't develop as a character soon.

If you enjoy these books read the Hornblower books by CS Forester, the original Napoleonic sea warfare books that this (and similar) series are obviously inspired by. Very good books in my opinion.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I read lots of hard scifi, but this series is pure space opera. That kind of rationalization delights me in this context. It's like reading the Lensmen books by Doc Smith, and the First Lensmen fires up diesel engines to power his drive. Pure science fantasy, a bit nutty, but it makes sense in the context.

At first, I was put off by some of the characterizations, especially of Honor. She was, indeed, too perfect. But she grew on me. Again, it's a matter of context. It works for me in this case.

 

[Umbran]

Interesting coincidence - tonight at Arisia, I picked up a CD-ROM that contains the full text of all but the very newest Honor Harrington book. Free. Straight from Baen books. They were just handing them out.

Like drug pushers or something - the first taste is free...

 

[Fade]

At first, I was put off by some of the characterizations, especially of Honor. She was, indeed, too perfect. But she grew on me. Again, it's a matter of context. It works for me in this case.

So are you saying she did develop a character, or that you grew to accept it as part of the series? Because I'm thinking of picking up War of Honor to get the CD, but if she stays as 2d as she as now I don't think I'd like it.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

She grows somewhat. The thing is, this series being space opera, I don't really look for that kind of stuff. To me, it's like looking for gritty character studies in the Star Wars films. The characterizations pretty much stay the same for just about everyone except Honor. I don't know if her characterization deepens enough for someone looking for that in the series.

 

[Squire James]

While I generally like the books, I agree that Honor is a bit too perfect. She's like "The Fonz" in Happy Days... she's essentially good at everything. I keep waiting for the book where she jumps a shark on her motorcycle, then telepathically commands the shark to kill the lurking assassin nearby (if her treecat don't get there first).

I think that's more a David Weber tendency than anything else... most of the protagonists in his books seem to possess outstanding ability in whatever they happen to be trying at the time!

 

[Rackhir]

At first, I was put off by some of the characterizations, especially of Honor. She was, indeed, too perfect. But she grew on me. Again, it's a matter of context. It works for me in this case.

Honor is hardly perfect, except when it comes to military virtues. She is pretty much the perfect soldier, but on a personal level she is deeply flawed.

First she tends to be plagued with self doubt with regards to her personal relations and remember she has screwed up numerous times when it comes to personal relations or diplomatic situations.

She punched out Houseman in "Honor of the Queen" which is definitely a no-no for military officers. And that was after she ran away from Greyson because she couldn't deal with the personal attacks on her.

Similarly she was virtually paralized in the face of the attacks on her relationship with Admiral White Haven in the latest book. Also her inability to deal with her attraction to White Haven and his to her, led directly to her being on the convoy escort that lead to her capture by the Peeps, in an earlier books.

She definitely has somewhat of a death wish as well. In about half the books she continues combats or initiates combats against clearly superior foes. Granted she obviously triumphs in the end, but her ship/fleet is usually a tottering wreck and 80% of the crew has been killed.

There are numerous other examples scattered through the books.

Granted, if you put her into a combat situation, she's pretty much the god of death and everyone around her seems to be frothing at the mouth with eagerness to die at her side. Not to mention the fact that she can seemingly turn three children and a dog into a crack naval crew almost overnight. One of the funniest lines in the books I though was in "Echoes of Honor" when the crew of her Q-ship finds out that she's their commander, one of them wails "Oh my god! We're all going to die" and sure enough most of them do.

One other note, yes the more recent books have slowed down in pace, but in a sense that's an inevitable consiquence of Honor's increasingly crucial position. Remember she's gone from the unimportant middle class captain of an over aged light cruiser to a major political figure in two governments, a buisness magnate and probably the greatest admiral in the universe. Her concerns are no longer just "Is that ship going to attack me?". She has to worry about and deal with domestic, economic, foriegn and political situations and foes as well as military ones. In fact the military ones are generally the least of her concern, since she clearly kicks ass in that area.

PS. If you like the combat stuff more than the political. You should probably check out the Starfire series by him and Steve White. They tend to be almost pure combat. Especially the last book, "The Shiva Option".

 

[death tribble]

Honor

I have only read the first six books.

I like them and Honor as a character. I like the starship combat and the way the ships work.
It is good stuff.

And once again the Tribble agress with the Colonel.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Honor is hardly perfect, except when it comes to military virtues. She is pretty much the perfect soldier, but on a personal level she is deeply flawed.

First she tends to be plagued with self doubt with regards to her personal relations and remember she has screwed up numerous times when it comes to personal relations or diplomatic situations.

She punched out Houseman in "Honor of the Queen" which is definitely a no-no for military officers. And that was after she ran away from Greyson because she couldn't deal with the personal attacks on her.

Similarly she was virtually paralized in the face of the attacks on her relationship with Admiral White Haven in the latest book. Also her inability to deal with her attraction to White Haven and his to her, led directly to her being on the convoy escort that lead to her capture by the Peeps, in an earlier books.

She definitely has somewhat of a death wish as well. In about half the books she continues combats or initiates combats against clearly superior foes. Granted she obviously triumphs in the end, but her ship/fleet is usually a tottering wreck and 80% of the crew has been killed.

There are numerous other examples scattered through the books.

Granted, if you put her into a combat situation, she's pretty much the god of death and everyone around her seems to be frothing at the mouth with eagerness to die at her side. Not to mention the fact that she can seemingly turn three children and a dog into a crack naval crew almost overnight. One of the funniest lines in the books I though was in "Echoes of Honor" when the crew of her Q-ship finds out that she's their commander, one of them wails "Oh my god! We're all going to die" and sure enough most of them do.

One other note, yes the more recent books have slowed down in pace, but in a sense that's an inevitable consiquence of Honor's increasingly crucial position. Remember she's gone from the unimportant middle class captain of an over aged light cruiser to a major political figure in two governments, a buisness magnate and probably the greatest admiral in the universe. Her concerns are no longer just "Is that ship going to attack me?". She has to worry about and deal with domestic, economic, foriegn and political situations and foes as well as military ones. In fact the military ones are generally the least of her concern, since she clearly kicks ass in that area.

PS. If you like the combat stuff more than the political. You should probably check out the Starfire series by him and Steve White. They tend to be almost pure combat. Especially the last book, "The Shiva Option".

I think that many of us mean "perfect" in the sense that she always makes the correct moral choice in the end. We don't see her slap an ensign over the lack of eggs for breakfast, or see her kick a dog when she's in a bad mood. Self-doubt really has no bearing on her not being perfect if it only makes her strive harder for perfection. I like her as a character, by the way; she's a throwback to the Lensmen of Doc Smith. Matter of fact, she would be offered a Lens if she lived in Doc's universe, and any who have read any of the Lensmen stories knows that she's absolutely cut from the same cloth - which is to say, perfect. Even the Lensmen had self-doubt; they never believed they deserved to have a Lens. But, in proper pulp fashion, the proof is in their actions, as is Honor's.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

On Honor's personality, I've always thought that wo. Nimitz's stablizing influence, she'd have snapped long ago and turned into just what her political opponents have accused her of being:

A violent, raving loon who is incredibly good at killing people both with ships and in person, and a general menace to everyone and everything else. The sort of a woman you don't want around at peacetime, if only because she might get bored and start a war...