How are melee characters expected to deal with flying creatures?

[keterys]

Can't say I like that idea. Utility Powers shouldn't just be combat - or you just said goodbye to all non-combat DnD for all non-Ritual Casters.

I actually think that they needed a second bucket. People shouldn't have to make a choice between 'teleport 3 squares and get +2 to defenses' and 'get +4 to a bluff check'.

I'm totally for a second bucket for feather fall, crucial advice, etc though.

Stopping for 2 short rests is hardly insane if you use the time to solve a big issue you are having

Perhaps, but a ten minute Knock feels really, really dumb

Similarly when a PC wanted to use Tenser's Disc to save someone from being swept downriver towards a waterfall, I felt a little bad telling him about the amount of time it took, since it was otherwise a perfectly decent idea.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

We have a precident with bards who have bard only rituals. The same could be done with other classes and these rituals could be more lenient with costs and time.

As keterys said: you should not have to make a choice between in and out of combat.
For a wizard this is less bad, because you have 2 utility spells you can exchange. So you can take a combat and an out of combat option.

And what is so bad about: as a wizard you can use your arcane energy to cast rituals with component costs of 100 g or less for free or you can use those components and can cast the rituals as a standard action.

Taking the knock spell as an example, you don´t make the rogue obosllete, because he needs at most 2 mins to open the lock. But lacking a rogue you can still be helpfull.

And the best, you can create a wizard only feat, which does exactly as i proposed.

And the second ritual, which binds any (wizard) utility spell (you need to learn it for each utility spell) into a scroll for an appropriate coast also doesn´t sound so wrong.
(Daily spells cost way more than encounter spells and using it is a daily item use)

Maybe this ritual can only be accessed through a feat.

 

[Nichwee]

And what is so bad about: as a wizard you can use your arcane energy to cast rituals with component costs of 100 g or less for free or you can use those components and can cast the rituals as a standard action.

Well the thing I'd find dodgy about the 'free cast' option is Comprehend Langauages, Tensor's Flouting Disc, Planar Steed, etc. Long duration rituals that you could just prep in the morning to be used for free all day. Plus Hand of Fate for free = never make an uninformed discision again.

And Magic Circle as a standard action would be a touch sick for reasons I hope I don't have to go into.

I'm not saying they couldn't have made some rituals more Utility Power-esque, but as a default I think the idea of rituals as "Sit and pull out you toolkit to engineer your way around a problem" is a good one.

And I think you should be choosing between combat or non-combat utilities. It gives a way to represent more variance in PCs, as some will value combat over non, and some vice versa.
Whereas, if you had a line for each, there would be a lot less choosing going on = more formulaic PCs (Same reason peeps talk of banning Iron Armbands, as it can cut valid choices out of the mix).

 

[Jhaelen]

As keterys said: you should not have to make a choice between in and out of combat.

This is something I'm worried about, too. This is also quite noticable with rogues: they have the option of getting several really nice at-will utility powers that are reminiscent of the thief abilities of old, but they rarely (if ever) get chosen, because other utilities seem more useful in combat.

I've already thought, maybe everyone should get to pick two utility powers at every level utility powers are gained, similar to the Wizard's spellbook ability.
However, rather than having to decide which one to use after every extended rest, it should be possible to choose after every short rest.

 

[keterys]

Then people would choose from two decent combat utility powers

Separate buckets are very good for allowing more choice without sacrifice.

 

[Nichwee]

Tho for the same level of variation they have to produce twice as many options = more books = more cost.

Plus combat utility is normally a lot easier to do the math for, as combat is all about mathimatical balancing (unless you actually try not to optimise but IAoP show this isn't all that common, and can get other teammates upset you gimped yourself and the party) - so we get one or two prime choices being used all the time (any Rangers not taking Twin Strike these days?)

 

[Garthanos]

Perhaps, but a ten minute Knock feels really, really dumb

Isnt that what rogues are for?... I mean really really.... allowing the wizard or ritualist to over write everyones role... is that really really what people are after?

 

[keterys]

Isnt that what rogues are for?... I mean really really.... allowing the wizard or ritualist to over write everyones role... is that really really what people are after?

Of course not. But how is a ritual that costs more and is slower than breaking through with a crowbar good design?

You're always going to go with the free and faster rogue option. But I've been in groups where the most correct answer after that was brute force because Knock was too slow, in addition to pure cost.

 

[Nichwee]

Of course not. But how is a ritual that costs more and is slower than breaking through with a crowbar good design?

You're always going to go with the free and faster rogue option. But I've been in groups where the most correct answer after that was brute force because Knock was too slow, in addition to pure cost.

I guess your team didn't have a reason to fear load noises attracting guards, or just the hassle that a gaping hole where a door used to be can bring.

 

[Garthanos]

I guess your team didn't have a reason to fear load noises attracting guards, or just the hassle that a gaping hole where a door used to be can bring.

Exactly... me warrior smash has a couple implications.. that aren't time and money though with a mend spell one can be turned into time and money and with a silence the other can too.

I'm not saying the cost of any given ritual is even perfect... I want to figure out ways to encourage them more too....
I want the most likely caster of a cheap faster knock spell to be a rogue with a magical background or multiclassed/hybrid rogue wizard.