How do Psions compare to arcane casters?

[wildstarsreach]

The debate:

Energy missile was a very flexible power to begin with. For a level less than a fireball, you get an effect that is targetable, which lets you avoid the common tactical conundrums of attacking multiple enemies with your spell/power when you allies charge into melee.

Further, in the original version, you could target attended objects, which is a bit potent against armed humanoid targets.

Further, it was one of the many powers that were given, for inexplicable reasons, a save DC that progresses twice as fast as other powers or spell (i.e., on par with +1 DC/level, instead of 1/2 level.)

This last point was errata'd in the complete psionic book, along with a bunch of other powers with the same typographical blunder. The power is much more tolerable now (if still potent.)


There are some psionics fans out there who refused to accept that this doubling the rate of DC progression made the ability was overpowered. They have been crafting arguments defending these powers for so long, and are so invested in this beleif, that they actually beleive that the errata issued in Complete Psionics is incorrect.

I, of course, firmly disagree with those folks and don't think they have a leg to stand on.


I think if you use the errata'd powers, and excercise the 4 encounters per day guideline set forth in the DMG, you should be fine using psionics in your game.

He's right. I took with my shaper, Expanded Knowledge Psionics, Energy Missile, I pointed out to my DM that the CP did correctly move the DC down.

 

[Nifft]

In my experience (as a DM who likes Psionic NPCs, and a player who's played a Telepath), Psionics from the XPH (Expanded Psionics Handbook) is remarkably well balanced.

Psions suffer from the same condition that plagues Sorcerers: limited spell (power) selection. Unlike Sorcerers, a Psion can't trade out his low-level powers, so his 1st level power choices have to be able to pull some weight all the way through 20th level. (Thus, augmentation is an important mechanic.)

There are some really important things that Psions are missing, though, which Wizards have:
- Metamagic Rods: Oh sweet baby Orcus, these things are amazing. Especially Quicken. No equivalent for Psions.
- Ring of Wizardry: A 20th level Psion could get a 17 point Crystal Capacitor, which would allow him to manifest a 9th level power (with no augmentation) for 81 kgp. A 20th level Wizard could get a Ring of Wizardry (III) for 70 kgp, which would enable him to cast 4 extra 3rd level spells. In terms of direct damage dice, that's 17d6+17 (all at once) vs. 40d6 (over four rounds).
- Gate: This spell makes baby Orcus cry. It's up there with shapechange in terms of breaking the game. On the subject of which...
- Shapechange: The Psionic version costs XP with each use, instead of needing a reusable 5 kgp focus.
- Polymorph Any Object: Lesser shapechange, but for the whole party, permanently. Wowza.


There are other classic Wizard tactics, like rope trick, which a Psion can't do. However, Psions get tricks of their own (which are different, but no less powerful).

Cheers, -- N

 

[frankthedm]

My experience playing a sorcerer has been differed radically from your estimation. There are more "best" spells to cherry-pick than a sorcerer is allowed to have. When a sorcerer hits 4th level, does he pick something defensive like invisibility, mirror image, or levitate, or something offensive like web, summon monster II, or scorching ray (and that's hardly an exhaustive list)?

Best to make that decision on how competent the other party members are. If the other members are a pack of berserkers, combat clerics and others whose mad rush to melee leaves the casters to fend for themselves, a defensive spell is a must at fourth if you want to see fifth. Mirror image makes a solid defense until someone with Blindfight closes their eyes and Trusts the Force.

On the other hand if the other party members act as a well disciplined unit, a fun blasting spell works well. Glitterdust is a really good choice since No SR, reveals invisible, and a will save or blind.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Best to make that decision on how competent the other party members are.

I'd amend that to say:

"Best to make that decision on how competent the other party members are or your particular PC's concept."

For example, a Sorcerer I designed called Ray Orbusson specialized in Ranged Touch spells, you know- orbs and rays (yes, he did have ranks in Perform: Sing and Perform: Lute, but thats not important right now).

For a PC like that, Scorching Ray would be the FIRST spell he took at that level, or at least in his top 4 from which to choose depending upon what books you're using in the campaign.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Currently playing in an 11th level campaign, and the psion kineticist is such an effective blaster that nobody bothers playing a wizard or sorcerer. The augmented energy missile and energy walls, configured to match a foes vulnerabilities or avoid their immunities is huge.

The only time that things have got sticky for him was in a major dungeon crawl, after about 15 encounters in a row.

In my next D&D campaign, if I allow psions they will have to choose an energy type when they pick a power and stick with it!

Cheers

 

[arscott]

But Plane, psions are supposed to be better blasters than sorcerers and wizards. Compared to the wizard's other spells, direct damage spells aren't that effective, and the designers didn't want to replicate that with psionics. Thus, a psion's direct damage powers are somewhat more effective than a wizard's, while their powers that hinder and incapacitate are somewhat less effective.

Saying that "the psion kineticist is such an effective blaster that nobody bothers playing a wizard or sorcerer" is much the same as saying "the cleric of pelor is such an effective healer that nobody bothers playing a druid or bard"

 

[Thanee]

But Plane, psions are supposed to be better blasters than sorcerers and wizards.

The DMG says different.
Of course, that was before the XPH... but the XPH does not comment on the general guidelines.

But apart from that... it just doesn't feel right for some reason. I just don't see psionics as the galactic force of blasting foes to bits. I have little problems with psionics being great at telepathy, domination and such, but Fireball!?

Of course, D&D is a very combat-centric game, so classes have to have good combat abilities...

But this is part of the reason, why psionics feel so bland (same thing, slightly different theme).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nifft]

Yup. Blasting (energy damage) is a Psion's strength.

Wizards and Sorcerers are better at a lot of things -- like buffing the party, or even just buffing one tank.

For offensive debuffs, the Sorc/Wiz wins too -- look at entangling ectoplasm vs. ray of enfeeblement and also slow vs. deceleration.

Cheers, -- N

 

[BryonD]

In my next D&D campaign, if I allow psions they will have to choose an energy type when they pick a power and stick with it!

Cheers

IMO psions should pick one type and be able to use other types as an augmentation.

 

[BryonD]

But apart from that... it just doesn't feel right for some reason. I just don't see psionics as the galactic force of blasting foes to bits. I have little problems with psionics being great at telepathy, domination and such, but Fireball!?

Of course, D&D is a very combat-centric game, so classes have to have good combat abilities...

But this is part of the reason, why psionics feel so bland (same thing, slightly different theme).

Bye
Thanee

But they are great at telepathy and domination.

But you also hit the nail on the head when you point out that D&D is so combat-centric. And the default systems needs to cater to that. It seems to me that for your personal game you could easily throw out the entire psykin school out and have what you want.

Of course having a charater inspired by, say, Firestarter, doesn't remotely seem outside of psionics or even slightly bland to me. But that is all a matter of taste.

If psions are to close to wizards because their power list is so similar, then sorcerers with the exact same spell list must have no flavor at all. Wizard, wizard, psion is more variety than wizard, wizard, wizard thematically and mechancially.