How do you advance a naga?

[aboyd]

I noticed that the spirit naga in the free adventure, "Treasure of the Black Veils," has an added level of sorcerer. I thought that monsters with innate spells were not actual spellcasters (for example, the spirit naga may be able to cast sorcerer spells, but the spirit naga doesn't get a familiar). However, in this module, the naga's one level of sorcerer stacked with the innate spellcasting, causing the naga to unlock 4th-level spells.

Is that right?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Technically, you are correct.

Practically however, the publisher may well be on the right side of this one (I haven't read the mod so I can only discuss the general principle).

If you want to advance a naga, the three ways that WotC provided that I remember off the top of my head are:

templates

HD

Class

Templates usually represent something odd about a creature or something odd that happened to it--god blooded, half dragon, half-fiend, zombie, etc. They grant a specific set of abilities. Obviously not what the designer was looking for.

Advancing by HD advances the combat capabilities and toughness of a creature but does not advance its spell like abilities very much. That's not very promising for a naga whose combat role is bound up in its magical and other special abilities.

Advancing by class is the last option and adds various abilities depending upon the class. Technically, it would only stack with creatures whose abilities exactly match class abilities. (So, a planetar cleric, for instance, would get more cleric spells). Creatures with spell like abilities just get the normal spells for the class. However, if you do that, it is hard to believe that adding one level of sorcerer to a creature that already has 3rd level spells as spell like abilities is going to increase its CR by 1. When is it going to use that clvl 1 magic missile or ray of enfeeblement? Only after it has used its better stuff and it'll probably be dead by then. So using that rule the way it is written renders the option useless in this case. The way that the authors appear to have done it seems balanced in principle as long as the creature ends up with spell like abilities that would be appropriate to a sorcerer of its CR (or slightly less given the non-magical abilities that a naga has--then again, less equipment and the commonly noted weakness of NPCs for their CR probably make up for this).

 

[aboyd]

Technically, you are correct.

Actually, I might be wrong.

I spent an hour to find it, but on page 294 of the Monster Manual it says that a "monster's levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability. A rakshasa, for example, casts spells as a 7th-level sorcerer. If it picks up a level of sorcerer, it casts spells as an 8th-level sorcerer."

Wow! That's almost exactly the situation with the spirit naga. It says it casts spells like a sorcerer -- but no other benefits such as a familiar. So adding 1 level of sorcerer class should indeed increase its overall power and unlock level 4 spells.

Now the only question left is, by adding a "real" level of sorcerer, do other non-spell things stack? Does the suddenly-gained familiar work as a 1st-level creature or as the familiar of an 8th-level sorcerer? Hmm.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Think of it like a prestige class that doesn't advance a familiar. He may enter sorcerer with 7 sorcerer casting levels or what-not, but he doesn't have any actual class levels, so the familiar starts off as it would for a Sorc 1. Just like how it'd stop advancing while casting progression would continue to in a prestige class...except backwards...

EDIT: In other words, such creatures, even more so than a typical sorcerer/wizard would want to drop the familiar for a variant class feature if possible, since it'll end up being behind for your ECL/CR. Might I recommend the PH2 variant to cast metamagic spells without casting time increase?

 

[Thanee]

Now the only question left is, by adding a "real" level of sorcerer, do other non-spell things stack? Does the suddenly-gained familiar work as a 1st-level creature or as the familiar of an 8th-level sorcerer? Hmm.

Of course not.

It's like a 1st-level sorcerer that looks up spells known/per day seven levels higher.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Runestar]

Not all familiar abilities are dependent on sorc lv. Imagine the stats of a gold wyrmling dragon familiar belonging to a great wyrm gold dragon with 1 lv of sorc (who took dragon familiar as a feat for its 42nd HD).

It would have +41bab (which allows it to PA extremely liberally to make up for its low damage base), 1/2 its hp (still amounting to ~400), its master's saves, skill ranks and be treated as having 42HD for any related effects (which at the moment, applies only to the save dc for its breath weapon, but if you were to give it feats whose effects are based off HD, such as awaken frightful presence/spell resistance...)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Which is pretty good for facing creatures of the dragon's CR...but if said dragon were a PC, in an obviously very high level party, the familiar would still suck pretty bad. I know this is for an NPC, but it doesn't have that many sorc levels / monster HD under its belt as your gold dragon does, and if going by MM CR progression, gains +! CR for each sorcerer class level, so after awhile...it just about falls even with the PC numbers, doesn't it?

In any case, the familiar will be weaker than it would for a human sorcerer of the same ECL/CR, so there is more incentive to dump it, even if it still could be useful.