D&D 4E How do you feel about 4E right *now*? (week of 1/21/08)

[Agamon]

I wonder if the latest magic item article changed anyone's opinion....

Is it really news, though? They already said they were lessening the need for magic items. While this confirms it, I wasn't all that surprised.

 

[Ulrick]

Thumbs down.

From what I've read here, on WotC website, and the two preview books (which I thought were a waste of money...so I didn't buy them):

4e seems even more video gamey than 3.X.

They're doing a lot of changes that I don't think are necessary--from a non-moneymaking point of view, of course.

Some of the changes I do think are necessary are mixed in with the ones that aren't necessary.

1.Generating numbers for NPCs is like doing (really boring) homework. Yes
2. The game seems to function best at about levels 5 to 12. Yes.
3. High level games are cumbersome and difficult to run. Yes
4. Low level games are swingy. That's the point.
5. The CR system is confusing and produces wonky results. Sort of.
6. Spellcasters outclass everyone else. They always have since 1e
7. Multiclassing works for only certain combinations. Classic tropes (warrior-wizards) need new core classes because the core system doesn't work. Then don't multiclass.
8. Characters have too few skill points. Sure I guess.
9. Monsters are unnecessarily complicated. Yeah, they're like PCs.
10. You don't get enough feats. Not really.
11. Attacks of opportunity are confusing. Agreed.
12. Magic items are really important, but it isn't equal. Some items are critical, others are complete chaff. Yes...put the magic back in magic items.
13. There are a number of weird little subsystems that introduce unnecessary complexity, like grappling. No. Not really.

I guess it comes down to the fact that I'm not interested in a new edition unless it really outshines 3.5. And I don't want to get burned again by having 4.5 come out three years later after I bought the books and have a campaign going.

That, and I don't feel like spending the money on a new edition.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Gentlemen - don't let this thread devolve into bickering, please.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[The Little Raven]

Gentlemen - don't let this thread devolve into bickering, please.[/size]

I just hate when people come in and claim you moderators are harsh on anti-4e people, but don't touch us pro-4e people at all. It's completely dishonest and insulting to the neutral environment you guys try to maintain.

 

[Jasperak]

Thumbs down

I miss Dungeon and Dragon in print.

 

[Lord Fyre]

Thumbs down

I miss Dungeon and Dragon in print.

So do I.

A also feel that WoTC shot themselve in the foot by ending the print version of Dragon right before launching a new edition.

 

[Reynard]

these messageboard polls are meaningless.

...people were posting that maybe WotC would reconsider or that 4E was obviously going to fail. lol

This is a statement that comes up a lot and I don't think it is particularly true. While a site with a very particularly anti-4E vibe to it, like Paizo's boards, is certainly going to give you skewed results, I think it is a little odd, given the diversity of opinion and general quality of discussion here at EN World, to presume that our opinions are somehow wildly different than those of the general gaming public. EN World, I think, is especially representative of D&D fandom, n ot least because even though it started as and largely remains a 3E site, we have a lot of posters that are admitted older-edition players/fans.

For all the bluster brought out about how EN World polls don't mean anything (unless the poll shows that people hate Vancian magic, then its all good) I can't think of a more representative community. it may not be scientific, but that is hardly the same as being meaningless.

 

[BryonD]

I just hate when people come in and claim you moderators are harsh on anti-4e people, but don't touch us pro-4e people at all. It's completely dishonest and insulting to the neutral environment you guys try to maintain.

The moderators are fair.
But if you think the net result of these boards is an open consideration of both sides, you are dreaming.
You say anything negative at all or express any concern and you get blasted with false accusations such as "insults directed towards pro-4e people, like suggesting they're all ADHD-afflicted 13-year-old kids".

The moderators are fine, but there are plenty of regular poster myrmidons here making certain that open discussion is derailed at the first possible instant.

 

[Agamon]

This is a statement that comes up a lot and I don't think it is particularly true. While a site with a very particularly anti-4E vibe to it, like Paizo's boards, is certainly going to give you skewed results, I think it is a little odd, given the diversity of opinion and general quality of discussion here at EN World, to presume that our opinions are somehow wildly different than those of the general gaming public. EN World, I think, is especially representative of D&D fandom, n ot least because even though it started as and largely remains a 3E site, we have a lot of posters that are admitted older-edition players/fans.

For all the bluster brought out about how EN World polls don't mean anything (unless the poll shows that people hate Vancian magic, then its all good) I can't think of a more representative community. it may not be scientific, but that is hardly the same as being meaningless.

Okay, maybe not completely and totally meaningless, but close enough. Of the four different groups of gamers I'm involved with, I'm the only ENWorlder. It's funny to think that I'm representative of them all. Messageboards, regardless of where they are, aren't representative.

It is, however, an interesting exercise to see who's hanging out on the board right now.

 

[Reynard]

Okay, maybe not completely and totally meaningless, but close enough. Of the four different groups of gamers I'm involved with, I'm the only ENWorlder. It's funny to think that I'm representative of them all.

That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not the people you play with are likely to feel similarly, in general ratios, to how EN Worlders respond. If you asked those four groups (say, 20 people) "thumbs up or thumbs down?" on 4E, how many would answer which way? Better than guessing, in fact, is to simply ask them -- throw out an email and count the responses. If 5-ish of them give the old thumbs down, then EN World is, in fact, representative of your group(s), which is likely to be representative of other groups. Especially considering were are talking about a binary question here.