How do you guys do Hps? And why?

[haiiro]

2) Fair. Avoids the Barbarian-rolls-bad-and-gets-one-hitpoint-per-level problem.

I started a thread on using fixed HP/level in House Rules a little while back, and this came up there as well. In actuality, using straight max HP/level skews things in favor of the martial/high HD classes, because while the difference between the average roll on a d4 (2.5) and a d12 (6.5) is 4 points, the difference between 4 and 12 is double that.

As Guilt Puppy put it in that thread, "Your Wizards or going to be Wizards plus, whereas your Fighters will be more like Fighters plusplusplus." This isn't the desired effect, IMO.

I've always preferred fixed HP to rolling, but I do think using the DMG guideline of "roll or take half" leaves something to be desired. The two systems I like best for HP are:

1) Award average+1/level, so d4 = 3, d6 = 4, d8 = 5, d10 = 6, d12 = 7. This preserves the difference between die types (1 per step) and gives the PCs a small boost overall.

2) Award ~80% of max/level, so d4 = 3, d6 = 5, d8 = 6, d10 = 8, d12 = 9. This skews things a bit in favor of the higher die types, and the percentages aren't perfect (they range from 75% to 83%), but it seems like it could work out fairly well.

I haven't decided which method to use in my next campaign, but it will most likely be one of those two.

If you're interested in checking out the old thread mentioned above, it offers some very good discussion of this topic: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=40410.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Re: Re

We roll 2 times re-rolling 1 and 2's for d10 or d8 and re-rolling 1's for d6 and d4. We like to make sure everyone has a reasonably good hit point total.

Poor barbarian!

 

[Belbarrus]

For those people that want to make sure that the player's hit points are 'average', try this system that was used in the CRPG, Wizards & Warriors:

Whenever you gain a level, you add a Hit Die, then *re-roll* ALL of your hit points. If the total is greater than what you currently have, you keep the total. If the new roll is lower

than what you currently have, you just add +1 to your hit points.

For example, lets say a 3rd level Barbarian has 35 hit points. When he gains level 4, he rolls 4d12. If this roll is higher than 35, he keeps the new roll. If the new roll is equal to or less

than 35, he merely adds +1, making his level 4 hit points 36.

This system allows those that rolled poorly a chance to recover and get something better and those that have already rolled good, will get more *average* hit points over time.

 

[CRGreathouse]

As Guilt Puppy put it in that thread, "Your Wizards or going to be Wizards plus, whereas your Fighters will be more like Fighters plusplusplus." This isn't the desired effect, IMO.

I've always preferred fixed HP to rolling, but I do think using the DMG guideline of "roll or take half" leaves something to be desired. The two systems I like best for HP are:

1) Award average+1/level, so d4 = 3, d6 = 4, d8 = 5, d10 = 6, d12 = 7. This preserves the difference between die types (1 per step) and gives the PCs a small boost overall.

2) Award ~80% of max/level, so d4 = 3, d6 = 5, d8 = 6, d10 = 8, d12 = 9. This skews things a bit in favor of the higher die types, and the percentages aren't perfect (they range from 75% to 83%), but it seems like it could work out fairly well.

Your method #1 (Living Greyhawk) skews rolls in favor of lower HD (m=-0.421178821). Your method #2 skews rolls in favor of larger HD (m=0.57982018). The maximum method obviously skews rolls in favor of larger HD (m=0.842357642).

(The higher the m, the more it favors large HD. Perfectly distributed rolls, where ave = k(s+1) for some constant k and sides s, have m=0.)

 

[CRGreathouse]

(1.) You roll your die as per usual.
(2.) If you are happy with your roll you take it.
(3.) If you are not happy, you start back at (1.) but with the next die down:
1d12 to 1d10 to 1d8 to 1d6
until...
(4.) If you roll a 1d4, you have to live with the result.

Averages:
d4.....2.5
d6.....3.833333333
d8.....5.1875
d10...6.59375
d12...8.046875

 

[cthuluftaghn]

As a DM, I have my players roll for new HP during level advancement. I don't accept 1's. Don't care if they have to roll 5 times. 2's, they're stuck with. If they chose poorly on their CON, then that's their bad.

 

[haiiro]

Your method #1 (Living Greyhawk) skews rolls in favor of lower HD (m=-0.421178821). Your method #2 skews rolls in favor of larger HD (m=0.57982018). The maximum method obviously skews rolls in favor of larger HD (m=0.842357642).

(The higher the m, the more it favors large HD. Perfectly distributed rolls, where ave = k(s+1) for some constant k and sides s, have m=0.)

Math is not my strong point.

I understand that the LG method (didn't know that's what LG used, but it seems like a useful shorthand) skews to lower die types, and the ~80% method skews to higher die types. What does "m=..." mean?

Is there a fixed HP method that doesn't skew things in anyone's favor, from a mathematical standpoint?

 

[just__al]

If players don't roll at least 30% of their die roll they get that instead. This eliminates ones for everybody, 2's for fighters, clerics, paladins etc. and 3's for barbarians.

Seems to work out ok...

 

[Spatzimaus]

IMC it's (die/2, +1 at every even character level) except that 1st level is max HP, as usual. That gives the same average rolling does, with an extra half-point on the even levels.

Originally I was very pro-rolling, since that's how you determined stats in old editions, but I've seen it really hurt a game. In AD&D, I had a level 4 Fighter who had rolled 10, 10, 9, 7 for his hit dice. With an 18 CON, that meant 52 HP, WAY above what everyone else had. Having those few good rolls early on made many encounters too easy; against an enemy spellcaster, I didn't care how many Magic Missiles he threw at me.
(The 18/00 STR didn't hurt, either, and yes, I rolled that naturally.)

If you like point-buy systems (and I do, for balance reasons), you really need to remove randomness from hit points as well. I don't think it really matters which method you choose, and if you're running a high-level campaign it doesn't make much difference if you roll at all, but at low levels it's critical.

 

[haiiro]

There was very good straight point buy system for attributes posted on the boards a little while back. This system was modelled on the average results of the “4d6 drop the lowest” method of rolling for attributes, and produces almost exactly the same number of points. It's the best straight point buy system I've seen for stats, and it has a useful underlying premise that is entirely different from WotC's. (I can't remember who posted it, but I think it was Plane Sailing or seasong. )

My guess is there's something similarly attractive for hit points -- but I've never seen it.

Can anyone with mathematical talent model the average result of the "roll again if you get a 1" and "roll twice, take the highest" methods for each die type? These seem like two of the most common methods used by those who prefer to roll, so they might make a pretty good starting point for a fixed HP system.

Any takers?

Edit: clarified the opening paragraph (I wish I could find the thread...).