D&D General How do you handle doubling of classes?

[jayoungr]

You mentioned not wanting to compete at "bardy things," so could you team up? Be an entertainment duo, maybe collaborating on back-story?

I don't want to turn this thread into being about that situation, so I'll just say that I don't think it would work in this specific case. But yes, that's an option in a general sense.

It's funny to me that the player sees Warlocks as being samey because to me they are actually one of the most varied classes. I guess if everyone wants to power up Eldritch Blast and go with that I can see it though.

A fae chain Warlock and a great old one tome Warlock almost play and are thematically different classes.

Yeah, I think what he meant was "two people doing nothing but spam eldritch blast would be monotonous." I didn't say I was going to spam EB, because I've never actually played a warlock, but the player assumed I would. (As it is, I raised some eyebrows by going with repelling blast instead of agonizing blast.) His original pitch was eladrin archfey pact of the talisman, and I went with genasi genie pact of the tome.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm just curious how other people handle the idea of having, or potentially having, multiple PCs of the same class in a party: two fighters, two sorcerers, etc.

Do you ban, or at least discourage, it?

Do you find that players are likely to back down and pick something else if someone else expresses an interest in playing a class they've chosen?

Has your group ever played with doubled-up classes, and how did it go?

Have you ever been one of the doubled-up classes, and how did you feel about it?

I think the important thing is for PCs to be different enough and not step on each other's toes out of combat (in-combat it's never a problem to have two with the same abilities). If you can make 2 different enough PCs of the same class then it's fine.

But classes are in fact designed to provide different experiences so picking different classes is generally a good idea.

When I am a player, I am always the last to pick the class. I wait for others and then invariably choose a class nobody did. It doesn't matter to me because I like them all.

I did have a bad experience when forced to play the same class as someone else. It was my very first character ever, in BECMI, using ability scores requirements for classes and rolling 3d6 stats IN ORDER. I rolled poorly and qualified only for Dwarf, with another player doing the same but still having better stats than me.

 

[ad_hoc]

I don't want to turn this thread into being about that situation, so I'll just say that I don't think it would work in this specific case. But yes, that's an option in a general sense.


Yeah, I think what he meant was "two people doing nothing but spam eldritch blast would be monotonous." I didn't say I was going to spam EB, because I've never actually played a warlock, but the player assumed I would. (As it is, I raised some eyebrows by going with repelling blast instead of agonizing blast.) His original pitch was eladrin archfey pact of the talisman, and I went with genasi genie pact of the tome.

And Warlocks don't even need to use Eldritch Blast at all.

Invocations are strong and without them it is just a d10 cantrip that you get disadvantage in melee for using (and also penalty for half cover).

I personally prefer toll the dead if it is in theme and to take other invocations.

 

[Ancalagon]

It is soft banned in my games.

There are enough classes for everyone to have their own. It just makes characterization and spotlight time much easier to do.

I like that D&D is a class based system and having multiples of the same class diminishes benefits of that.

It's funny to me that the player sees Warlocks as being samey because to me they are actually one of the most varied classes. I guess if everyone wants to power up Eldritch Blast and go with that I can see it though.

A fae chain Warlock and a great old one tome Warlock almost play and are thematically different classes.

A "soft" ban is better than a hard one, because two characters of different classes can overlap more than 2 of the same!

For example, which situation is more of a problem:

A: Player 1 has an arcane archer with the outlander background, player 2 is a ranger with an archery focus.

B: Player 1 is a heavily armored dwarven EK fighter with a melee focus and the soldier background, player 2 is a wild elf lightly armored battlemaster with a bow and rapier, with the criminal background.

I would say that situation B has far less "overlap" than situation A...

 

[Burnside]

No, the player has explicitly said that bards (specifically glamour bards) are the only class she is willing to play for the foreseeable future--i.e. "until things get less stressful," whenever that might be. She knows how they work, so they're her comfort zone. I think it's been about two years and five games since this person played anything else, and a large percentage of her characters were glamour bards even before that.

But that wasn't the only reason I was curious about how other people handle this situation. Just to explain where I'm coming from:

The other thing that made me think about it was when our group was putting together characters for a new game that just started. One player leaped in and said he wanted to play a warlock and even had a firm concept for it. I mentioned that I was also interested in playing a warlock but would choose a different patron if I went with that. At that point, the original person said, "No, I'll go with one of my other ideas. Warlocks tend to be all the same at the table." I'm feeling a little bad that I made him back out of his first choice,

So one the one hand I have the bard player encouraging me to still play that bard that I want to get back to, but me not wanting to have to worry about competing with her character for bard-y things. But then on the other hand, when I tried applying that principle to a warlock, thinking that different patrons would give the characters very different flavor, the other guy opted out. So that got me wondering whether other tables ever have this problem and if so, how they deal with it.

Is it just specific classes that create this problem? I can see how two fighters (for example) might be easier to manage.

I think that as long as you choose a different bard subclass, you’ll be totally fine with two bards (I suggest Lore bard). The bard subclasses can play quite differently, and the class itself is so versatile, that neither of you will feel redundant.

 

[aco175]

Never had a problem with it. We just finished a campaign with two rogues, cleric, and fighter. The rogues ended up as an assassin and trickster and one was more archer over sword. New campaign is fighter, rogue, cleric, and warlock, much like normal. The cleric is more a NPC since nobody else wanted to play one this time, more of a DMNPC without bringing those threads up again. Last campaign one of the rogues was as well.

Not sure on handling the groups. Last campaign was more a published adventure and the party did not have any large problems not having a mage-type. I likely changed some smaller things like certain items or allowed some magic to be traded. I guess if there was no cleric I likely would add some more healing such as potions or a wand-type that recharges. My normal campaigns are mostly homemade and get tailored as we go where I drop a sword that I think the fighter would like and get, or a ring that I think would go one place, but the player may choose something else.

There may also be some directional changes if there is more of one class or one missing. If there is no mage then no reason to bring circles and item creation unless a player want to, same with no cleric and bringing god elements in. With two or more bards, I may add some more to that element. Other bards from the past come back for good or ill and challenge them for joining forces in one party. Just don't forget to have the other PCs some time to shine as well.

 

[SirMoogle]

All bard party go!!!!

On a more related note, I think this issue is also seen outside a class when a concept overlaps between two different classes. For example, I'm currently in a PbP game where another player (who unfortunately dropped) and I picked Aberrant Mind Sorcerer and Great Old One Warlock respectively. They raised some concerns that thematically we were very similar, so we kind of solved that problem with spell and skill selection (I was customising my character towards crowd control than damage output).

 

[jayoungr]

So, it's come up again.

I've been playing in a monthly campaign for 2 years now, in which I play a halfling rogue, a character I'm very fond of. Only rogue in the party. The DM has had a couple of NPCs that he has used as semi-PCs in certain situations, but they've never been obtrusive. However, they didn't overlap with any of the PCs' classes, and as a side point, what our group badly needs is front-line melee types.

So the latest scheduling message from the DM included this casual note at the end: "I've been pondering 'rolling up' a new player character for myself that might visit [the setting] as an NPC. She would be a scrappy teenage human rogue from a noble background based off of Arya Stark. I'm thinking that could provide some fun role play opportunities."

I'm alarmed at the idea of bringing in another rogue based on a super-popular existing character. I don't want to harsh his buzz--I still feel bad about the other guy abandoning his warlock idea, even though he's probably forgotten about it by now. But I don't see how this character would improve the game. But then, I also don't know what he has in mind for this new character. I don't know if he envisions this character as a friend/ally to mine, or a rival. Or how often he plans for this character to show up. And I don't know what to say. Am I right to be concerned? How would you handle this??

 

[SirMoogle]

Wait, so are you saying the DM is planning to create a DMPC that happens to also be a rogue? At the very least I'd ask him how this character would differ from yours, the player. Is it not possible to just use an NPC stat block that's been rehashed?

 

[77IM]

Your DM is doing the right thing by mentioning this idea to the group. It sounds, by his phrasing, that he's looking for feedback. So I'd definitely offer feedback. But before you offer the feedback, do what SirMoogle suggests and ask him for more details. And from your third paragraph, it sounds like you already have good questions lined up.

Rogue is one of the most versatile classes and there are many ways to play it. If you've been playing your character for two years, your DM surely knows what your PC is like, and presumably doesn't want to introduce a carbon-copy. Arya Stark is a sort of swashbuckler/assassin-type, which can feel very different in play than, say, a ranged arcane trickster or a trap-focussed thief. So your concerns are legit; but, they may not come to pass.