How Do You Handle "Kicker" Damage?

[Felon]

Some atttack powers have a damage effect that kicks in under certain conditions. Two notable examples are the warlock's Dire Radiance and Hellish Rebuke at-wills, which both have 1d6 + Con damage kickers.

Do we have any rules that cover whether or not any bonuses add back into these kickers, such as Astral Fire or implement bonuses?

 

[DracoSuave]

Such things generally refer to 'Damage rolls with a _____ power.' Such a phrase does not care if you had to roll to hit or not. Damage rolls are damage rolls, and so, if you roll dice for the damage, you get your feat bonuses, implement bonuses, etc.

The same thing happens with the Cleric's Healing Lore and any cleric power that grants Regeneration. It doesn't care that the healing is iterative, merely that it happens, and thusly adds to each bit of healing the regeneration does.

 

[Jack99]

The same thing happens with the Cleric's Healing Lore and any cleric power that grants Regeneration. It doesn't care that the healing is iterative, merely that it happens, and thusly adds to each bit of healing the regeneration does.

I am pretty sure you are wrong on that one. Or do you have something else that backs up your theory?

 

[keterys]

Yeah, all bonuses apply to the damage roll (see rules for damage rolls somewhere in the 267-277 area).

I'm not sure how the regeneration / add Wisdom thing came up in the conversation, but as far as I can tell that statement is completely wrong.

 

[Stalker0]

Damage works in a few categories:

1) Bonus to damage. This one is really rare, I think there is one or two things that actually gives a straight up bump to damage, but I could be wrong.

2) Bonus to damage rolls. Effects anything with damage roll of a W on it. Fairly common.

3) Bonus to damage rolls on a hit. There are a few things that specifically require an attack and a damage roll before the bonus gets added. The bloodcrazed weapon is an example...much to my dismay when I realized i couldn't use it with Rain of Steel.

 

[DracoSuave]

I am pretty sure you are wrong on that one. Or do you have something else that backs up your theory?

I'm not slogging through these boards to find the Melora's Tide/Healing Lore ruling from CS.

But it's really simple in concept. The regeneration is healing granted by a power. Melora's Tide alters a Cleric Class Feature and thus becomes a Cleric Power. It, and regeneration from Cleric powers, are therefore boosted by Healing Lore.

Consecrated Ground is boosted by Healing Lore, which makes it even better than advertised.

The point is that, without a limitation on the ability/feat/whatever, you go by the literal text. Weapon Focus (for example) literally says 'damage rolls' so if you roll damage for the power, you boost it. It does not matter if you hit or miss, that's irrelevant to the feat itself. Compare that to Resourceful Presence which only works if you use the extra action to make an attack.

 

[Felon]

So, it would seem the consensus is that kicker damage allows for double-dipping (or "multi-dipping" if you please) bonuses from implements, feats, and so on.

 

[Markn]

Here is a slight change in the question then.

With the Warlocks Dire Radiance, would he add his implement bonus damage again if the target moved forward closer to him?

I've always assumed yes, but the question has always been in the back of my mind.

 

[DracoSuave]

It is a damage roll from a power.

If he has Astral Fire (because it is a power with the radiant keyword), yes. If he has Hellfire Blood (because it is a power with the fear keyword), yes. If he has an implement bonus? Yes. If he used his warlord buddy's Tactical Assault? Yes, Because the damage roll is the result of an attack (tho not immediately so).

However, let's say you had a stance, Rain of Steel.

If you have Weapon Focus, you add the damage, because Weapon Focus affects Damage rolls, and this power is using a weapon. If you spent an action point near the above warlord, however, you're not making an attack with the weapon so you wouldn't add the Tactical Assault (or Resourceful Presence) damage.

 

[Felon]

Interesting. I asked this right after 4e came out, and folks were flatly thumbs-down on the double-dipping damage.