how does evard's black tentacles work, and/or why is it good?

[frankthedm]

This spell is very good at shutting down medium sized foes. Too good if you don't run it as the litteral wording / FAQ.

 

[evilbob]

How's this for rules lawyerism:

"Once the tentacles grapple an opponent,"

The spell doesn't say "if." It says "once." Worth noting also is that this statement comes before the additional paragraph talking about when a creature enters the area. Therefore, it could be surmised that the "once" implies that this is something that has a chance to happen multiple times: i.e. the grapple checks are made each round.

A bit weak, but perhaps a possibility?

 

[frankthedm]

How's this for rules lawyerism:

"Once the tentacles grapple an opponent,"

The spell doesn't say "if." It says "once." Worth noting also is that this statement comes before the additional paragraph talking about when a creature enters the area. Therefore, it could be surmised that the "once" implies that this is something that has a chance to happen multiple times: i.e. the grapple checks are made each round.

A bit weak, but perhaps a possibility?

Very weak on the text even though it fits in spirit.

This spell conjures a field of rubbery black tentacles, each 10 feet long. These waving members seem to spring forth from the earth, floor, or whatever surface is underfoot—including water. They grasp and entwine around creatures that enter the area, holding them fast and crushing them with great strength.

Every creature within the area of the spell must make a grapple check, opposed by the grapple check of the tentacles. Treat the tentacles attacking a particular target as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level and a Strength score of 19. Thus, its grapple check modifier is equal to your caster level +8. The tentacles are immune to all types of damage.

Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage. The tentacles continue to crush the opponent until the spell ends or the opponent escapes.

Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles. Even creatures who aren’t grappling with the tentacles may move through the area at only half normal speed.

 

[blargney the second]

Your ranged sneak attackers will love evard's. Immobile foes with no Dex? It's party time!

 

[mvincent]

Your ranged sneak attackers will love evard's. Immobile foes with no Dex? It's party time!

Well... the target is almost certainly considered to be grappling, so (per this table) I believe you would still have to "Roll randomly to see which grappling combatant you strike"... even if one of them can't be harmed.

 

[evilbob]

THAT'S where that is! Thank you.

Yes, I also worry that the spell would cause ranged attackers to be very happy - and then cry at their 50% miss chance.

 

[mvincent]

THAT'S where that is! Thank you.

Yes, I also worry that the spell would cause ranged attackers to be very happy - and then cry at their 50% miss chance.

It at least mollifies (a bit) the complaint that the tentacles offer no cover.

 

[azhrei_fje]

THAT'S where that is! Thank you.

Yes, I also worry that the spell would cause ranged attackers to be very happy - and then cry at their 50% miss chance.

Technically there's no rule that says it would be a 50% miss chance.

In fact, based on the description, if the tentacles are considered Large and the opponent is Medium, and argument can be made that there should be either 2 chances to hit the Large for every chance there is to hit the Medium (meaning 2:3 for the Large and 1:3 for the Medium), or it could be based on the number of squares occupied, which makes it 4:5 for the Large and 1:5 for the Medium.

I rule it using the first example, because there is text (somewhere) that talks about how many creature can be in a grapple at once and the number is cut in half for each size increase. YMMV.

 

[frankthedm]

Technically there's no rule that says it would be a 50% miss chance.

In fact, based on the description, if the tentacles are considered Large and the opponent is Medium, and argument can be made that there should be either 2 chances to hit the Large for every chance there is to hit the Medium (meaning 2:3 for the Large and 1:3 for the Medium), or it could be based on the number of squares occupied, which makes it 4:5 for the Large and 1:5 for the Medium.

I rule it using the first example, because there is text (somewhere) that talks about how many creature can be in a grapple at once and the number is cut in half for each size increase. YMMV.

And the counterargument can be made that the Bigger creature has a better chance of hoisting up the smaller victim to use it as a living shield.

 

[Legildur]

Technically there's no rule that says it would be a 50% miss chance.

100% correct.

In fact, based on the description, if the tentacles are considered Large and the opponent is Medium, and argument can be made that there should be either 2 chances to hit the Large for every chance there is to hit the Medium (meaning 2:3 for the Large and 1:3 for the Medium), or it could be based on the number of squares occupied, which makes it 4:5 for the Large and 1:5 for the Medium.

The tentacles are 'treated as large' for the grappling. Although given they are 10 feet long, I have some sympathy for your assumption.

Assuming that they are large size (for purposes of firing into melee/cover) then I would rule that the tentacles occupy 3:4 and a medium sized opponent 1:4. A ranged attack can only see the 'face' of the cube occupied by the tentacle and so would 'see' 4x5ft square 'faces', of which the medium-sized creature would occupy 1 'face'. Of course, this ignores that the tentacle would be wrapped around the medium-sized creature...