How excited would you be about 4th edition putting up the core books with all erratta?

[Raith5]

I would like to see a cleaned up 4e with fixed math, reduced number of feats etc but I would rather the energy put into a module for 5e which robustly replicates some of the key features of 4e play style. In particular 1) more interesting power options for PCs - especially martial classes, and 2) more interesting monster options.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Some of the later rounds of errata weren't that great, anyway, thanks to Essentials, so not so much.

 

[The Fighter-Cricket]

Could you give us some details about the errata that you didn't like?

 

[thanson02]

Pretty much topic. How much would you like to see the core 4e books with all errata released? By core books im talking about PHB 1,2,3 ; DMG 1,2; and Monster Manual 1,2,3.

Updated math would be nice. My biggest complaints with 4E (and I love 4E, BTW) was how the business end of it was handled with all the PDF supplement updates and it wasn't play-tested enough to make sure the math was on par. Myself as well as others ran into too many battles where it dragged on. The Essentials math is better for this, but I didn't like where they went with character generation.

So yes, I would buy the updated books in a heartbeat.

 

[thanson02]

MM 1 and 2 updated (I know a whole bunch of 1 is already in the MM however) would be pretty nice (as all the adventure critters and etc - that would super!)

However, the massively-mamothian task of a "cleaned-up" 4e would send me through the roof - and quite probably through the next one after that!

Something along the lines of :
feat trim - only those who offer meaningful choices and serve a pertinent role
theme review - rebalance all the themes to each other
power trim - same as "feat trim"
magic item trim/overhaul - presume inherent bonuses, balance items against each other, create more of a "reality" to common vs. uncommon vs. rare (perhaps diablo-style : one major/two minor = common; one major + 1-3 minor = uncommon; 2 major + 2-4 minor = rare; as an of-the-top-of-my-head example)
terrain / traps - just have them in a logical grouping with a little "suggest use" bit of text
monster update - use the good math but! keep the "old" aspect of having major differences in attack power for artillery caught in melee and such kinds of things that were in the MM 1 and 2, but got lost in MM 3+. I like that foes can be "disabled" by "simple" player tactics sometimes.

... probably something else - but if "just*" that came out... I would by that so hard, I'd probably order 7 copies from pressing the button so hard.

Thinking about all this keeps bringing up how fast 4e was thrown away... And... now I'm sad.

You are not the only sad panda in the house.

Do much of what is above and I would do the following:

1. Break the roles of classes into the builds: They started to do this with the Essential line and subclasses, but I would have kept it in the builds.

2. Take all the utility powers and make them skill powers: I would also have some general class features like what they did with Essentials for the builds and give the players the option of swapping out the feature with a skill power at that level.

3: Add more fluff with the Magic System: You can add substance without modifying the mechanics. I ended up writing a 10 page magic supplement for my 4E games to add more fluff and I only ended up making 3 house rules to make it work. Players are loving it.

5: Cleaned up Skill Challenges and added material from the Unearthed Arcana articles to flush out non-combat options for players.

Do that, make sure to do a solid play test it to make sure it works, and promote it as Advanced D&D 4E or 4.5 (or insert other name here) and you are good to go. Oh, wait. Licensing......

Again, sad panda........

 

[cmad1977]

Only if I were paid to acquire them.

 

[The Fighter-Cricket]

You are not the only sad panda in the house.

Do much of what is above and I would do the following:

1. Break the roles of classes into the builds: They started to do this with the Essential line and subclasses, but I would have kept it in the builds.

2. Take all the utility powers and make them skill powers: I would also have some general class features like what they did with Essentials for the builds and give the players the option of swapping out the feature with a skill power at that level.

3: Add more fluff with the Magic System: You can add substance without modifying the mechanics. I ended up writing a 10 page magic supplement for my 4E games to add more fluff and I only ended up making 3 house rules to make it work. Players are loving it.

5: Cleaned up Skill Challenges and added material from the Unearthed Arcana articles to flush out non-combat options for players.

Do that, make sure to do a solid play test it to make sure it works, and promote it as Advanced D&D 4E or 4.5 (or insert other name here) and you are good to go. Oh, wait. Licensing......

Again, sad panda........

Nice. Any chance giving us a peek inside your "definitely NOT 4.5 Edition due to licensing reasons" documents? (The utility-skill power approach sounds intriguing.)

 

[Tony Vargas]

Could you give us some details about the errata that you didn't like?

An example would be the errata a Magic Missile with the Essentials release, and the cascade of broken related game elements also requiring errata as a result, but that doesn't really tell you much.

Essentials represented a change in direction, and some of the errata that followed it was entirely in service to that change of direction, rather than merely fixing errors and closing loopholes.

 

[The Fighter-Cricket]

An example would be the errata a Magic Missile with the Essentials release, and the cascade of broken related game elements also requiring errata as a result, but that doesn't really tell you much.

Essentials represented a change in direction, and some of the errata that followed it was entirely in service to that change of direction, rather than merely fixing errors and closing loopholes.

Yes, the "oldschoolization" of Magic Missile is something even I noticed back then (auto hit etc.). When you talk about a "cascade of broken realated game elements", do you mean the errata of existing powers (like in the case of Magic Missile)? Or is it something you attribute to the essentials character builds? Maybe you could give me another example?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yes, the "oldschoolization" of Magic Missile is something even I noticed back then (auto hit etc.). When you talk about a "cascade of broken realated game elements", do you mean

there were feats & items that interacted with MM, when it stopped having attack or damage rolls, many of them stopped working - not 'broke' in the sense of over/under powered, but more literally broke in the sense that they became non-functional, requiring their own erratas.

But, such fiascoes were just symptoms, it was the change in design direction that was the real problem.

Even then, it wasn't consistent. The best articulation of Skill Challenges, for instance, happened under Essentials (perhaps because there were no prior-ed skill challenges to hearken back to).

So it doesn't much matter whether I'm picking and choosing errata to apply to old books or picking and choosing errata to opt-out of in a hypothetical 'complete with all errata' new printing.