D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

It was never about need though.

In earlier D&D, the DM had a very large amount of control over the party's power simply by controlling what magic items were found. Since magic items couldn't be bought (by the rules) nor manufactured to spec, it was very much in the hands of the DM. And, additionally, random treasure tables gave a LOT of magic items - granted a lot of it was single use like potions and scrolls - but still, by modern D&D standards, a freaking mountain of magic items. One only has to look at older modules to see just how many magic items were being given away.

It wasn't about need though. It was the expectation. And, because it was expected, it could be anticipated. The party is a bit anemic? Ok, drop in a couple of magic doodads and they can punch above their weight class for a while. Party a bit too powerful? Ok, we drop a couple of area effect damages and let failed saving throws take care of things. It was simply a means that was pretty much 100% in the DM's hands.

Now, because most of the PC's power level is hard wired into the class and almost entirely in the hands of the player, the DM no longer has that tool in his or her belt. At least, not to the degree that an AD&D DM had.
I agree completely, I wasn't saying that players were required to have them. The "need" was intended as no longer needing a mountain of them to tip the scales into monty haul as described on 2e dmg pg115 because one or two plus all of what's been stapled to the PCs themselves can cause those problems. From what I recall the 2e dmg had a few pages about working with players to design & quest for/craft custom magic items & such though & ad&d 2e by modern standards is still pretty "early d&d"
 

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In earlier D&D, the DM had a very large amount of control over the party's power simply by controlling what magic items were found. Since magic items couldn't be bought (by the rules) nor manufactured to spec, it was very much in the hands of the DM.

Doesn't the 1e DMG have rules for (high level) characters to make magic items (that are usable by their class).

Apparently H1 has items for sale in it, and some early Dragon magazines supposedly mention it.

Anyway, it seems odd to explicitly have rules for selling them (DMG page 121) if there is no one buying them.
 

Yes and no. When your players know how much is worth the monster in xp you're done. If you do milestones, then the player will expect to level every three games or so. Go higher on milestone, and your players will grumble at first and rebel if you change nothing.
You're assuming they know the level of the monsters, they shouldn't. Again, it takes a CR5 ogre or hill giant reskinned to an orc to challenge a 1st level party. You're not awarding 1800 xp for beating that thing to a 1st-level group. Or you shouldn't be. A "deadly" 1st-level encounter is worth 100 xp per PC. So when they (a 1st-level party) face a deadly encounter (a reskinned CR5 monster), that's what they get (100 XP per character). The designers screwed up and set the bar laughably low.

Let's run some numbers. DMG p82-84.

A medium encounter is worth 50 XP per PC; a hard encounter is worth 75 XP per PC. Both the budget to build for the DM and the XP award for the PCs after defeating it. An adventuring day consists of 6-8 medium to hard encounters. That's a range from 300 to 600. Interestingly, the DMG gives that lower number, against soft-balling their own system. So averaging that gives us 450 XP for an "average" adventuring day per PC. Assuming a party of four that gives us: 450 x 4 = 1800. Look at that. So the average adventuring day for a 1st-level party of four is 1800 XP...which is exactly one CR5 creature. That's weird. You just have to watch the damage on the attacks so you don't insta-kill a PC every hit. Maybe more attacks a round at reduced damage and you're set. Using a hill giant as an example, CR5 with 104 hit points. A 1st-level party of four can pump out 104 damage in what...3...maybe 4 rounds by using their spells instead of spamming cantrips.
Yep, and at which point to you become adversarial?
The DM becomes adversarial once they try to win. Once they think of the players as the enemy, as an opponent to be beaten, it's over.
Nope, it is the player acquiring powers without anything done by the DM or despite of it.
The PC cannot level without the DM's permission. The DM controls XP. The players cannot simply declare that they've now leveled. That's not how it works. The PCs level at a rate determined by the DM. Milestones, story-based leveling, or XP awarded...it's all up to the DM, not the players. The players cannot say, "I don't care what your homebrew world is, I'm playing X race and Y class, so there." The DM is more than likely going to show that player the door.
Before, power spikes were given by leveling,
Still are. And still are completely controlled by the DM.
Now, players do not need that edge.
No, they don't.
This facet of the game isn't in the hands of the DM anymore.
Yes, it is. Only the DM awards magic items. Only the DM awards XP. The DM can veto races, classes, subclasses, etc. If the DM doesn't want something in their game, it's gone. If the DM uses a different XP chart, they do. If the DM homebrews races and classes, they're in. There's no aspect of the game that isn't under the DM's control except for the actions of the PCs once the game starts, short of domination magic.
Heal overnight is way more powerful than what was before.

The reset of all spell slots is also a huge power boost! It took a 20th level M-U almost 3 days (with 16 hours of hours of memorizing each day) to recover his full allotment of spells. Now a single good night sleep is required. If that ain't super hero, nothing is.
Agreed.
 




Several posts have described how it could be used and the symptoms of the loss. I don't need to repeat them if a complete dismissal of "I'm not seeing it" isthe extent of your quibble. A +3 weapon was always a huge thing, but so much existed between "magic weapon" & +3, that entire space has largely been taken from the GM's toolbox & grafted directly onto the PC's sheet itself. Sure you can still give out amazing named items & such, there's just no room in the system's math for them unless you keep endlessly tweaking monsters each time & adding extra dragons.
Yes, several posts have asserted this. @Hussar does the best job of it above, but that argument is "well, I could increase party power by giving out magic items and then decrease it later by destroying them." 5e doesn't use that method, but offers much the same abilities through much more open and functional encounter math so that the GM can better balance things. Also, open math allows for better monster creation understanding. The tools moved, they didn't become less. Sure, you can't yo-yo magic items at a whim as GM, but the need you're citing for doing so is provided by other tools. If you can't adjust, the problem isn't in the tools, but that you want to play older edition with newer edition. They are different games and do things differently. Expecting the same tools to address problems that have moved seems contraindicated.
No, I have not. The three* have very similar functions that allow the gm to do things except one suffers from a severe case of maslow's hammer. gm:"Your going to have trouble doing that because of... it's an example... because it's rainy">Alice:"I have advantage from flanking/boots of elvenkind/my class ability/etc, advantage+disadvantage cancel out& getting advantage again doesn't help so I'm good" vrs... gm:"Your going to have trouble doing that because of the rain">Alice:"Wow yea, I have a tent, can I fashion that into a raincoat for a +2 circumstance?">gm:"sure">Bob:"If I fireball the wall will that dry the rock & give her an environment bonus?">gm:"sure". Powerful numerically & powerful narratively are different things.
This is an odd argument. One, the GM's friend didn't stack for multiple instances. Two, bonus types wasn't a GM's tool, it's was an annoying system development of 3.x, which was entirely player facing and gameable by players -- not GMs. So the GM's friend (and not bonus types) are the thing for comparison. GM's friend was a small, often pointless addition to 3.x. This is because the skill check was most likely either going to crush the DC because it was focused or be so far from it because it wasn't focused that +2 wouldn't help. I ran entire games of 3.x where I didn't even bother using it because it didn't really matter. Dis/advantage usually matters, or matters much more often than the GM's friend of 3.x ever did. It does it differently, and the complaint it's either there or not has some validity, but not in showcasing that it isn't a new, effective tool for the GM. It is an effective tool, and one I find far more useful than the GM's friend (again, because quite often the GM's friend just did not matter at all).
It absolutely did grant the GM that 3.x had system math that assumed a certain "you must be this magically equipped by level X Y & Z" baked into the system's math. The GM could hand them out or not. The GM could limit gold & availability in magic item shops. The GM could even tell bob & his craft:whatever feat that he needs a specific component in order to craft the thing he wants to craft or that he can't find the version he needs for crafting that but he can find a version that will make a slightly different/significantly but more GM acceptable version of the thing he wants. 3.x was 2000/2003, that's certainly decades, perhaps your exclusion of it is part of why you are "not seeing it".

Modern d&d has "Magic items are optional" & some combination of things like "make custom monsters" "the GM has infinite dragons" & "fix it yourself", that's a significant shift over

*(dis)advantage +2/-2 with bonus types & "GM's best friend" linked earlier
If the GM isn't following the expectation of the game, then the GM is not playing the game as presented. This is always open -- you can make stuff up and go against expectation in any game. Why this is considered a strength of prior editions I'm not sure -- "hey, Bob, just ignore stuff and do your own thing!" "Thanks, Fred, this makes this edition so much better now that I'm ignoring things. It's the bestest at doing things because I ignore it and do what I want." "I know, Bob, such good design!"
 

Yes, several posts have asserted this. @Hussar does the best job of it above, but that argument is "well, I could increase party power by giving out magic items and then decrease it later by destroying them." 5e doesn't use that method, but offers much the same abilities through much more open and functional encounter math so that the GM can better balance things. Also, open math allows for better monster creation understanding. The tools moved, they didn't become less. Sure, you can't yo-yo magic items at a whim as GM, but the need you're citing for doing so is provided by other tools. If you can't adjust, the problem isn't in the tools, but that you want to play older edition with newer edition. They are different games and do things differently. Expecting the same tools to address problems that have moved seems contraindicated.
Well, yes and no. Since much of what would normally have come to a PC as a magic item is now built straight into the class, it's far more predictable but, also, it's now on the player side. It's not like you can tell that warlock character, "Oh, sorry, you don't get an invocation this level because I'm trying to rein in the power level of the party". The character turns Level X and gets Y power ups.

But, the point being, it's different. I'm not arguing more or less, but, it's undeniable that it has shifted. I could drop boots of flying (for example) in an AD&D game if I wanted characters to have easy access to flight. In 5e, there are classes that gain various movement types just for being that class.

Granted too, this really depended on the classes being played. Obviously a 6th level AD&D Druid could gain flight. Funnily enough, you need 8th level to do it in 5e. :D But, there are other ways as well - so many other classes gain spells that allow flight, as opposed to only Magic Users once upon a time. In AD&D, I could give a necklace of fireballs out and a cleric could drop fireball. Now, depending on which Domain I have, I might actually be able to CAST fireball.

So on and so forth. As a tool for shifting balance, granting magic items are somewhat less useful in 5e since so many of the classes gain access to spells/powers and many of them are not class specific in the way they were before. Where a Ring of Invisiblity or an Elven Cloak in AD&D could be a huge power up, it's a lot less in 5e because so many classes other than wizard can now straight up cast Invisibilty or Pass Without a Trace.

And that's not counting what you might get from Feats or Racial abilities too.
 

Well, yes and no. Since much of what would normally have come to a PC as a magic item is now built straight into the class, it's far more predictable but, also, it's now on the player side. It's not like you can tell that warlock character, "Oh, sorry, you don't get an invocation this level because I'm trying to rein in the power level of the party". The character turns Level X and gets Y power ups.

But, the point being, it's different. I'm not arguing more or less, but, it's undeniable that it has shifted. I could drop boots of flying (for example) in an AD&D game if I wanted characters to have easy access to flight. In 5e, there are classes that gain various movement types just for being that class.

Granted too, this really depended on the classes being played. Obviously a 6th level AD&D Druid could gain flight. Funnily enough, you need 8th level to do it in 5e. :D But, there are other ways as well - so many other classes gain spells that allow flight, as opposed to only Magic Users once upon a time. In AD&D, I could give a necklace of fireballs out and a cleric could drop fireball. Now, depending on which Domain I have, I might actually be able to CAST fireball.

So on and so forth. As a tool for shifting balance, granting magic items are somewhat less useful in 5e since so many of the classes gain access to spells/powers and many of them are not class specific in the way they were before. Where a Ring of Invisiblity or an Elven Cloak in AD&D could be a huge power up, it's a lot less in 5e because so many classes other than wizard can now straight up cast Invisibilty or Pass Without a Trace.

And that's not counting what you might get from Feats or Racial abilities too.
It's easy to give power to the PCs. Less easy to take it away.
 


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