How important are prestige classes?

[ForceUser]

How important is it to Players to have the option to take a prestige class? Can not a Player make a fully satisfying character with only the core classes?

Quasqueton

They aren't important. You lose nothing by not using them. On the other hand, a prestige class can enhance the story of a campaign by tying a unique group of people all belonging to a prestige class to the world.

Using the Shadowdancer as-is from the DMG is okay. Creating an organization around the Shadowdancer called the Noctus Druuth, a mysterious group of shadow-walking informants and spies, is much more interesting and flavorful.

The 11 core classes have game mechanics covered. Prestige classes are for fluff.

 

[Zappo]

I don't think that's true. Most prcl we see in books cannot be made by multi classing.

Of course, but that's because they are given special abilities that don't normally exist. But conceptually, you could make a "spellsword" character as a fighter/sorcerer or fighter/wizard multiclass with Still Spell and you could make a "hunter of the dead" as a good cleric with the right stats and feats.

When you get to ultra-specialized types (blood mage, arachna-dude of lloth, or whatever strange stuff is in your favorite setting) you need a PrC, but what I meant was that the common fantasy archetypes, ie the stuff that a player can expect exists in the setting even without being told, can be made quite well without PrCs.

PrCs are certainly a good thing, but you could live without them (proof being that they are in the DMG instead of the PHB).

 

[Crothian]

Ya, you can live without them with ease. My game the characteers are 14th level and no one has taken a prcl yet.

 

[ConspiracyAngel]

one would think that there would be an easier way to "Poll" this question...

I think that if a campaign only runs until 13h level or so, it would not be so bad. I am sure though, if you were to continue a long drawn out campaign with just the same old stuff, after a while it could become tidious. The addition of prestige classes, while sometimes frustrating - once you get used to them, they can add some fresh new aspects of gaming.

It just depends on how long you want to play and how in depth you like to go.

 

[Seonaid]

My first reaction was, "Who needs 'em!" but then I realized that I've had 2 characters who have wanted PrC's. One is long gone and never got the one she wanted, but one is still on track, and if the campaign holds together, will definitely get it.

As others have said, I think they are not at all necessary, but they are fun and flavorful. As long as they are regulated by the GM, they're fine. More experienced players in general will be the ones who want them, and hopefully they will be the ones who can moderate.

I know that for me, I was afraid to touch PrC's because I didn't understand the rules well enough. It wasn't until the past year or so (out of 7 or so) that I even considered it. The same goes for multiclassing, and bringing in things from outside of the PHB. Until I exhaust the possibilities of the PHB, I think I'll be satisfied.

 

[Kalanyr]

Mm I agree, they aren't necesary per se (well a couple of them are, the mechanical "patch" classes like the Mystic Theurge are kinda necessary to avoid some very weak characters). But they do help to round out a world or culture or yes even a character (someone had to be the first Tempest).

Even taking PrC from vanilla/other settings, you can tweak the flavour, rename the abilities and end up with something very different. Let's say you have an order of stealthy ninja or something (so its not original sue me) you can take the Shadowdancer PrC and with a bit of renaming and flavour tweaking you've got something that works fairly well and you don't have to worry about coming up with many different mechanics and making sure they are balanced.

 

[ph0rk]

No, they are not necessary; most any concept or archetype can be created using the PHB rules.

Now, that isn't to say that any concept you make with PHB rules will be as powerful as a similar PrC (arcane trickster vs wizard/rogue for example); but the "PrC's are needed for flaver" argument just doesn't hold to me. Few classes restrict flavor (And I don't think anyone would say a paladin is light on that). One can make a wide array of scout types with the fighter, rogue, and ranger classes, for example.

The classes, feats, and skills supply mechanics and only mechanics. Bring your own fluff.

(No one is saying you can't go join that organization without getting a PrC out of it, eh? Roleplay, people!)

 

[Acid_crash]

I think the idea of PrC are nice and cool, the implementation (with few exceptions) has been rather bad...there's as many PrC as there are feats it seems...and I think that we can have only so many Gladiator PrC in various publications before enough is enough. (just one example of seeing the same PrC done different ways by different companies).

Worlds like Midnight and Dawnforge, however, did PrC right, and they implemented them very well...and I think Scarred Lands did them right also.

My major beef with PrC is that it leads to min/maxing and metagaming and takes away from story development and character evolvement based on the experiences of the character.

 

[ph0rk]

My major beef with PrC is that it leads to min/maxing and metagaming and takes away from story development and character evolvement based on the experiences of the character.

-most- PrC's have a roleplaying requirement of some kind; and imho even the ones that as printed do not should as well. There are just too many printed to allow them willy-nilly - a good many don't even seem playtested.

The kicker though is that some of the base classes start to get pretty lackluster at higher levels; and make one feel like they need a PrC just to stay current with the party (Fighter, for example - which imho exists almost solely for multiclassing). This is strictly crunch-wise though; a fighter has as much flavor or fluff as they player brings it.

We can hope that they will expand the feat system enough in the next edition to make PrC's unneeded. With enough feat-chains to give the abilities players want from PrC's that clumsy mechanics can be done away with and we can stick with a small number of core classes and a good selection of feats.

I cannot possibly think of a single bit of flaver granted by any published PrC that cannot be replicated in some way by multiclasses character straight out of the PHB. There will be significant crunch differences though.

 

[hong]

Prestige classes are manna for gearheads. The more the better, I say.