How is FR changing with 4E?

[dm4hire]

The time jump and weakening of the major NPCs roles is specifically aimed at the Realms Player. Those changes make it so that you don't have to worry about knowing everything fully as well as listening to players stating "that's not correct" or "that's not how that character would act." I played in a campaign where the DM didn't and never would read the novels. I accepted that he played the Realms his way, but it still grated my teeth when certain NPCs didn't actted out of character. Villians tend to work without a flaw no matter how you play them, but the good NPCs are the ones that will ruin it if they don't act like people expect them too. This change takes that pressure off the DM now. Elminster won't be coming to save the day because he's afraid he'll lose it if he tries to use magic.

 

[Vanuslux]

The time jump and weakening of the major NPCs roles is specifically aimed at the Realms Player. Those changes make it so that you don't have to worry about knowing everything fully as well as listening to players stating "that's not correct" or "that's not how that character would act." I played in a campaign where the DM didn't and never would read the novels. I accepted that he played the Realms his way, but it still grated my teeth when certain NPCs didn't actted out of character. Villians tend to work without a flaw no matter how you play them, but the good NPCs are the ones that will ruin it if they don't act like people expect them too. This change takes that pressure off the DM now. Elminster won't be coming to save the day because he's afraid he'll lose it if he tries to use magic.

I'm pretty sure that there are still going to be plenty of DMs that still use NPCs out of character. That's a DM flaw, not a setting flaw.

 

[Mercule]

FR deities suddenly start acting as if they are characters in a bad soap opera instead of the hyper-intelligent powerful beings they are supposed to be. It's got a love triangle, betrayal, etc.

So, they're modeling the Olympian pantheon, then.

 

[dm4hire]

I'm pretty sure that there are still going to be plenty of DMs that still use NPCs out of character. That's a DM flaw, not a setting flaw.

That's true, but in the same regard it was easier to find said NPCs and convince them aid the party. There was nothing holding the NPCs back from just being convinced to do the job for the party. Make a few bluff or diplomacy checks and bang you have a major NPC aiding or doing your job for you. Now with less NPCs which have in game reasons to not be active it puts the weight back on the PCs shoulders making them the real heroes of the Realms as they were meant to be, not the NPCs. The current write up for Elminster says he won't even use a simple spell because he's afraid that he might lose control; you can get him to answer all your questions, but nothing beyond that.

 

[Barastrondo]

So, they're modeling the Olympian pantheon, then.

That's what I thought, though I figured "most every other" instead of "the Olympian".

It kinda conjures up images of angry fans complaining that it is totally unrealistic that Shiva would cut the head off his own son and replace it with an elephant's, or that Amaterasu would fall for Susano-o's machinations, or the like.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

FR deities suddenly start acting as if they are characters in a bad soap opera instead of the hyper-intelligent powerful beings they are supposed to be. It's got a love triangle, betrayal, etc.

How is this different from older versions of the Realms? Does anyone remember who Mystra 2.0's favorite bedmate was?

(Mystra 1.0 = Mystryl.)

 

[ProfessorCirno]

A god of justice being deceived by a god of lies into believing his best friend has betrayed him in a time of need, and then doing what a god of justice would do: demand justice... that just strikes me as good ol' divine tragedy.

Yes, it makes tons of sense for the god of justice to completely buy unquestionably what the lord of lies says.

 

[The Little Raven]

Yes, it makes tons of sense for the god of justice to completely buy unquestionably what the lord of lies says.

1. Cyric was only rumored to be involved. There is no proof, no scene of Cyric going to Tyr and saying "Hey, man, I know we've had our differences, but your homeboy Helm is macking on your main squeeze, Tymora. You can trust me." and Tyr saying "I totally believe you, Prince of Lies." All we have is the description that through a series of misunderstandings, Tyr came to believe that Helm was vying for Tymora's hand (when he was supposed to be courting her in Tyr's name), and because of the betrayal, challenged him to a duel for it.

2. That's the point of deception... it appears to be the truth.

3. God of Justice does not automatically mean God of Knowing Whenever Anyone is Lying or Being Completely Infallible When It Comes to Making Decisions or Having Emotional Reactions.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Questions are good. Even gods can change their alignment, and more importantly - Lawful Neutral might just be Unaligned. If 4E had no alignment system at all, would this mean Amunator can't exist, because he had an alignment?

Questions are good when they're well written. But with many things in 4e, the changes are being done specifically to fit the mechanics, and so many of the changes are so completely arbitrary. Again, Tyr deciding that one of his most hated enemies, the literal god of lies, is totally trustworthy. This is why you can't compare it to Time of Troubles - that was done to herald in a new ruleset, and the setting had big changes, but MOSTLY STAYED THE SAME. This change is literally designed to try and get rid of everything from the previous editions. Again, I refer you to those horrible 90's comics in which every new artist felt he had to completely change how their favorite superhero worked to fit his and only his ideas.

And again, to those saying FR needed the face lift...the places that needed it most aren't getting it. The Sword Coast, the most generic place since generic came to generictown? It stays the exact same. It's the places that weren't well fleshed out that are getting axed. Everything you hate about FR is still there.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

1. Cyric was only rumored to be involved. There is no proof, no scene of Cyric going to Tyr and saying "Hey, man, I know we've had our differences, but your homeboy Helm is macking on your main squeeze, Tymora. You can trust me." and Tyr saying "I totally believe you, Prince of Lies." All we have is the description that through a series of misunderstandings, Tyr came to believe that Helm was vying for Tymora's hand (when he was supposed to be courting her in Tyr's name), and because of the betrayal, challenged him to a duel for it.

2. That's the point of deception... it appears to be the truth.

3. God of Justice does not automatically mean God of Knowing Whenever Anyone is Lying or Being Completely Infallible When It Comes to Making Decisions or Having Emotional Reactions.

You're still missing the problem - the god of honor decided not to believe the god of truth and loyalty. The problem is that Tyr has gone from the loyal defender of honor and good to some angsty teenager who's so sure people are talking about him behind his back.