How levels define D&D

[Dausuul]

In my view, this is an indirect reason for many of the complaints about WotC adventures. The objective of allowing the PCs to gain one or two levels by the end of the adventure combined with the need (according to the rules) to fight X encounters in order to gain the necessary experience usually means that adventures are padded up with more fights and encounters than they actually need.

It makes me wonder whether objective experience rules are fine in a sandbox campaign (being an essential element of the trade-off between risk and reward), but unnecessary (or even detrimental) to a more scripted game.

What I find myself wondering is why WotC doesn't simply give XP for noncombat encounters.

 

[pawsplay]

whose damage is 40d6 (normal).

Secondly, this was a "heroic" level game in the Hero System - Justice Inc.. Given the differing rules for such games (especially those that don't have a strong "magic element"), the power levels tend to be very close. If you keep putting experience into Str you only get half the benefit once you exceed 20.

I was trying to make the example simple. Because we are comparing it to D&D, you can make it an example about a wizard's Fire Blast spell and the numbers are almost identical.

 

[FireLance]

What I find myself wondering is why WotC doesn't simply give XP for noncombat encounters.

XP is awarded for skill challenges, which are technically noncombat encounters, but the same principle applies. Padding up an adventure with skill challenges for the sake of increasing the XP count is just as bad as adding additional combat encounters.

 

[Jhaelen]

XP is awarded for skill challenges, which are technically noncombat encounters, but the same principle applies. Padding up an adventure with skill challenges for the sake of increasing the XP count is just as bad as adding additional combat encounters.

Well, there are also Quest XP. Since there's no limit to the number of quests you can design for an adventure that's the way to make sure the party levels up.

Or you just do what I decided to do: Don't care about xp and let the party level up when it makes sense (to me).

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think that saying that removing leveling from D&D makes a game not D&D. I remember playing a gritty grimdark campaign where one retired characters when they reached 4th level and we though it was D&D at the time.

Now it played in someways similar to Warhammer but in most respects it was very dissimular.

Is E6 and its variants not D&D, I think that the position is too stong. I think that both cases are D&D but a subset of a larger whole. I do agree that highlevel characters being untouchable by lower level characters is a fairly distinctive aspect of D&D and one not shared by many non-D&D systems that do not resemble D&D in their base mechanics.

 

[FireLance]

Or you just do what I decided to do: Don't care about xp and let the party level up when it makes sense (to me).

That's what I do in my home game. I was just commenting on the problem it causes for published modules, adventure paths in particular.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I agree that the level track, the massive difference in power between first level and high level PCs, is a very distinctive feature of D&D.

That said, I think character classes are an even more important feature and shape the player experience more strongly. Perhaps because one has to play the game over a long period of time to experience the full level track and one only has to play a single session with multiple PCs to experience the difference between character classes.

 

[TheNovaLord]

leave D&D as it is, no matter the version

play something else that does what you want it to do

There are ssssssssoooooooo maaaaaaannnnnnyyyyyyy rpgs out there, dont mess them , try something different and more suitable

 

[Dice4Hire]

There are ssssssssoooooooo maaaaaaannnnnnyyyyyyy rpgs out there, dont mess them , try something different and more suitable

This is very true. I wonder how many other systems some of he edition-war people have tried?

Maybe next week, instead of posting here, try out a new game?

 

[Smeelbo]

Besides magic, which dominates a D&D campaign more and more as level rises, I've found the real issue is really hit points.

In contrast, Traveller T20 generates parties with characters ranging from 4th to 12th level, and it works quite well. In T20, a plasma blast to the chest kills you dead no matter, and there are far more skills than any one character could master, so adding a 5th level to a group that averages 8th really can improve the group. Also, In T20, BAB rises much more slowly.

In my experience, T20 is the best, most playable version of Traveller, and quite possibly the best D20 stand alone game.

Smeelbo