How much does the RPG system actually matter....for player enjoyment?

[Mallus]

Similarly, you can do your social intrigue campaign in D&D, or Cortex, or BRP, and each game will produce a distinct outcome, any of which might be a good outcome for the right group.

I like your filmmaker analogy, but can't quite agree with this bit. I'm pretty sure if you ran me and my group through social scenes using D&D, then Cortex, then BRP, you'd find they produced remarkably similar outcomes. The tools might be different, but we'd end up trying to put them to the same use.

FYI, our AD&D campaign isn't very different from our D&D 4e one, it even uses the same homebrew.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I like your filmmaker analogy, but can't quite agree with this bit. I'm pretty sure if you ran me and my group through social scenes using D&D, then Cortex, then BRP, you'd find they produced remarkably similar outcomes.

Not necessarily. A classless system makes it easier to opt in to social mechanics, increasing the likelihood of multiple characters participating; I do see D&D situations where characters without access to the appropriate skills feel hamstrung.

Different action resolution mechanics change things as well; with Cortex you have a plot point exchange that puts significant pressure on players to act out flaws and take risks, which I find creates a livelier social dynamic.

But you can create the same basic scene if you want to.

 

[pemerton]

[MENTION=58416]just wondering if at the end of the session if you are the player would your overall fun ( if you could measure that) be any different in a significant way?

What variable am I meant to hold constant in this thought experiment?

For instance, if I turn up to an RPG session and find the GM is running AD&D, I am going to approach the game very differently from if I turn up and see the GM is running Traveller.

So it might be true that my fun depends mostly on the group, if we allow everything else about the play experience to be variable. But if you hold constant that I am playing a sci-fi exploration game, then fun probably won't be constant over the above two scenarios - playing a sci-fi exploration game using AD&D is going to be pretty frustrating, as every time I tell the GM my PC takes of in his/her spaceship the GM is going to reply "What spaceship"?

I think one of the best arguments for the rules not really being important for enjoying a rpg is that you can enjoy it without knowing any rules.

Well, I don't know how other groups are doing it, but when I'm the GM all a player has to do is to tell me what she wants her pc to do. Then I'll tell her how to do it in the ruleset we happen to use.

For me, this already impies a degree of GM control over play that would make the game not fun for me. As a player, I want to understand the way in which the system works, so that I can leverage it against the GM's challenges. As a GM, I want the players to understand the way the system works so they can leverage it against the challenges I present to them.

Yes, if you're playing a traditional medieval fantasy setting it doesn't make that much difference which traditional medieval fantasy RPG you're playing. But are you going to use a Star Wars system to play a noir mystery drama? Not only that, but different RPG systems bring different ideas about lethality, player narrative powers, etc. Just asking "What does your character do?" doesn't work if the system specifically allows PCs to temporarily define characteristics of the setting outside of their character (other NPCs, places, and plots) through narrative devices.

I agree with this, and the rest of your posts in the thread.

 

[Herobizkit]

From my own experience, I've played the Serenity RPG using the Cortex system and nothing takes me out of the game faster than their dice rolling methods. I've played it for nearly a year and still couldn't tell you what skills apply to what stat and which dice to roll. I simply hate combat using this system as well. For Modern/Future gaming, I'd prefer a simpler system with obvious links to skills and stats.

 

[Lwaxy]

playing a sci-fi exploration game using AD&D is going to be pretty frustrating, as every time I tell the GM my PC takes of in his/her spaceship the GM is going to reply "What spaceship"?

That would be one dumb GM.

We did AD&D in space before, worked just fine. With a few adaptions, of course.

 

[billd91]

It has been my experience that system can matter quite a bit with respect to player enjoyment and much of it comes down to how cumbersome the system is for what we are trying to do with it. If it's too cumbersome, it affects the fun.

For example, the players in my group have all played D&D in some form for most of our lives (our average age is in the low 40s). When we tried 4e out, we had a couple of enthusiasts, a couple of skeptics, and a pack of neutrals. After about a year or so, even the enthusiasts had come to find the futzing with powers more cumbersome than we were interested in enduring and we opted to return to 3.5, an edition in which players had a little more power to choose the degree of cumbersomeness they wanted and with which we were more proficient.

As another example, when one of our GMs started up an adapted Mass Effect campaign, he first chose GURPS as his system. But to model the technology and tech modularity, we were struggling with rolling a lot of dice, calculating a lot of damage against shields, and it was just getting to be a hassle. So we switched to Star Wars Saga Edition and it has been smooth sailing ever since because the mechanics were a lot less cumbersome fit (a limited selection of Force powers makes for some good biotics).

When I was in high school, we had both Champions and Villains and Vigilantes. We played the latter a whole lot more because, as superhero games go, V&V was a lot less cumbersome than Champions and a whole lot easier to teach to new players, particular with respect to character generation.

 

[Dethklok]

It has been my experience that system can matter quite a bit with respect to player enjoyment and much of it comes down to how cumbersome the system is for what we are trying to do with it. If it's too cumbersome, it affects the fun.

This has been my exact experience, and I agree completely. (Also it's neat to see someone getting mileage out of V&V.)

I've had decent gamemasters run decent scenarios using 4e, and it was still an utterly lousy experience. Who runs the game, what the scenario is, whom you're playing with, and what system you are using all make a difference.

 

[Gundark]

I got to play the new(ish) Arcanis rpg the other day. Long story short I really thought (IMHO) that the system is really a stinker, so much so that I had to de-brief with my wife the following morning (she was a trooper ). However, the group of people where good, the storyline was pretty decent (living arcanis module), it was time well spent ane while my would have had more fun playing a system that I liked I don't think that my level of fun experienced was much different (if there was some wierd way you could measure fun objectively).

now I think this is more about the reasons behind my I play RPGs #1. To be with people I enjoy and #2. To tell interesting and fun stories within a game framework. For me system matters...just not significantly.

YMMV

 

[scourger]

For me, system matters. I need a certain level of mastery (or at least familiarity) with a game before I get invested enough to really enjoy it. I like putting in a degree of work so that I can make an effective character (power gaming) and then continue to invest in the story of the game and how I can shape it (storytelling). The latter is also developing my character and I am willing to do a lot of independent research if I am already invested.

I perceive it also matters for other player types. The others in my group are more tactically and strategically oriented. For them system seems to matter because they get enjoyment from using just the right resource at just the right time to be really successful. It is not my style, but I see that it is important to them. It also makes each of them more or less willing to try different games.