How much does the RPG system actually matter....for player enjoyment?

But, tone is important to a game. If you're playing a lighthearted game, then you want a lighthearted system. If you're playing a grim and gritty game, you'll want a game to go with it. Dread won't make a great system for the 1850s London heirs to a fortune game, for example. You don't really want PC death in that game, which means Dread is going to be a bad choice.

I'm not sure what a 'lighthearted system' is. For me, the best analogy for game mechanics that I have heard is that they are like a language. They reflect the culture of people, and quite likely the attitude of the game designer when making the game. However, you cannot legislate for people to be creative - it still has to come from them, ultimately - by the language they speak.
 

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System matters a lot to me. And therapy style would matter a lot to me, too.

I like the language analogy TrippyHippy used. You need to know the context to truly understand and to have fun.
 

While I kind of understand what you are implying, the discussion is more in line if you have story about anime maids will the players have fun if the groups is using BESM/BESM D20?, OVA? In Nomine Anime? Gurps? Maid RPG? Nechronica? Fate? Golden Sky Stories? ... etc.
Point can be made that all those can be enjoyable. Will it be the same game? No. It will still be one about anime maids as seen through the combined prospective of the system and group.

Is it an issue of quality, preferences, or picking the right game for the right campaign? Are we talking about just one of those things or all of them at the same time?
Would you play a maid game using Pathfinder? 4th Edition? Next? Warhammer 40K? On second thought, a Warhammer 40k RPG game about Maids could be crazy awesome in the right hands...
 

However, you cannot legislate for people to be creative - it still has to come from them, ultimately - by the language they speak.

I'm not talking about a system making people more creative. I'm talking about picking a system that complements the play style you want.

Different systems will have different levels of lethality, necessary bookkeeping, minis vs no minis, all kinds of things. So if you don't want PC death, maybe you shouldn't pick a very lethal system.
 

I'm not talking about a system making people more creative. I'm talking about picking a system that complements the play style you want.

Different systems will have different levels of lethality, necessary bookkeeping, minis vs no minis, all kinds of things. So if you don't want PC death, maybe you shouldn't pick a very lethal system.
I'm sorry but I've had so much experience of individual gamers who refuse to play particular games simply because their 'game styles' prejudicially preclude them from running with the system provided. It's all personal taste.

Yes, you could make a game more or less lethal in combat, you could run it with miniatures, and have more or less book-working involved - then again you could make adjustments within the same system easily enough, and most GMs do it on the fly whether you know it or not.
 

I'm sorry but I've had so much experience of individual gamers who refuse to play particular games simply because their 'game styles' prejudicially preclude them from running with the system provided. It's all personal taste.

I've had the same experience, where somebody loves one game and wants to play that one game for every genre, every setting, and every possible campaign. It doesn't matter if another system would be perfect for a game, they'll go with what they're used to and try to houserule it into fitting, and never try anything new.
 

I was thinking about this more, and something came to mind.

Another reason why I believe "system" does matter is because (as I said earlier) I am someone who believes mechanics and fluff have a relationship with each other.

As an example, I play GURPS a lot. One of the benefits to GURPS is that it is modular. In particular, there is more than one way to handle magic. I fully believe that the magical style I choose for a game does greatly change the feel, tone, and style of the game I am running, and likewise creates a different relationship between crunch/mechanics and fluff. Admittedly, I typically use the default magic system found in GURPS Basic Set because I find it does an adequate job of covering a lot of what I want to do. However, for some game types and genres, Ritual Path Magic is a far better fit, and using RPM instead of the default magic system greatly changes the tone of the game, the mechanical aspects of magic from a player point of view, and the way that the in-game world works from a character's point of view. If I were playing a Supers game and my character idea was a hero powered by magic, I wouldn't use either of the magic systems I mentioned, and I would instead build my character's 'spells' using innate attacks, advantages, and disadvantages; this too would have a big impact on tone, feel, mood, how both the player and character interact with the game and game world, and various other things. Even though my choices of game system is exactly the same in all of these examples, my choice of mechanics and "system" within that same toolkit (GURPS) greatly changes the enjoyment of the game and (in my opinion) the suitability of the mechanics in relation to the story I'm trying to tell.

I fully believe that I could attempt to tell the same exact story three times, choose a different magic system for each time, and the story -even though it's the same story- would be portrayed very differently because of that change. A lot of the major plot points would remain the same, but a lot of things would change to. As said already, the way players would interact with the game would be different. Also, the way characters interact with the world around them would be different, and this would in turn change the thought process behind making choices both from the perspective of the character an the perspective of a player controlling said character. Note that in all three tellings of the story, I would also be using GURPS, but changing an aspect of the system which would in turn change the game and produce different results.

In this context, I'll again bring up the original Dragonlance novels because they were (in the beginning) written around how D&D worked at that time. I fully believe that if Dragonlance were written today and written around how D&D 4th Edition works that the story would not turn out the same way; it wouldn't be logical for the characters to even approach the world they live in the same way because of major differences in how the physics engine (if I can borrow a video game term) of the world they live in would change. From a reader's perspective, the story would change as well because of the fact that the world the characters are in would function differently, and the characters themselves would also function differently. The major parts of the story and the general plot might very well be exactly the same, but the details in between would be different, and it's the small details in between which often matter the most.
 

Is it an issue of quality, preferences, or picking the right game for the right campaign? Are we talking about just one of those things or all of them at the same time?
Would you play a maid game using Pathfinder? 4th Edition? Next? Warhammer 40K? On second thought, a Warhammer 40k RPG game about Maids could be crazy awesome in the right hands...

As I said in post 60 (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...er-enjoyment&p=6163137&viewfull=1#post6163137)
If only limitation is being a maid game then a lot of different stories can be told. Like:
A) An average anybody inherits a large mansion with hundreds of maids.
B) The Warrior-Maids of the Space emperor and their fight against the planet devouring forces of Entropy.
C) A demon lord had fallen, now it is up to the PC, who play female retainers, to ensure the successor is both found and survives to fill the position. (Maid RPG actually have such scenario)
 

Oh, I get it [MENTION=29760]Luce[/MENTION] ! I imagine for many people, system matters only somewhat or not at all. As long as the system is decent enough, most players won't mind. If system is more important to you, it's because you developed more refined/specific tastes in RPGs (or become heavily involved with a single RPG or style of gaming).

System still matters though. It's in terms of how the DM views it though. If a grognard is gonna run a game for me, I would rather him use the most convoluted OSR game then 4th Edition. Any OSR is more likely to play to his strengths then 4th Edition would.
 

System matters a lot to me. And therapy style would matter a lot to me, too.

I like the language analogy TrippyHippy used. You need to know the context to truly understand and to have fun.
therapy style and therapy modalities are two different things. Research would suggest that the modality chosen by the therapist is not a massively contributing factor when looking at client outcomes.
 

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