D&D (2024) How should the Swordmage be implemented in 1DnD?

[Yaarel]

With the "power source" spell lists failed to gain traction during the playtests. It is unclear how the spell lists will organize thematically.

But 2024 would do best to focus on making the traditional Spell Schools more sensical and useful.


The thematics for every single spell that has ever existed in D&D in any edition looks something like the following. A few spells are complex with a number of moving parts that entangle more than one category, but the categories are as follows.

ELEMENTAL
= Evocation (airy wind, airy Lightning-Thunder, watery Cold, fiery Fire-Radiant light-darkness, Elemental Chaos primordial elemental energies)
= Transmutation (earthy stone, metal, crystal, etcetera, Plant, Beast, body, shapeshift, fabricating objects, evoke or become an Elemental form)

FORCE
= Dunomancy (all "force" effects, gravitational force, antigravity, telekinesis, telekinetic flight, Fly, Force damage, Magic Missile)
= Illusion (objectively existing force constructs, whether invisible force armor, Wall of Force, Unseen Servant, or visible reality simulations)

SPACE-TIME
= Divination (psychic precognition whether predictive or of past events, or acquisition of knowledge and expertise)
= Teleportation (jumping thru space, Misty Step, Teleport, Haste, Time Stop, plus extradimensional spaces, such as Rope Trick)
= Chronomancy (jumping thru time or altering time)

ENCHANTMENT
= Enchantment (all telepathic mind-affecting spells, including "phantasms" that alter the senses of a target)

CONJURATION
= Conjuration (all planar spells that alter or perceive other planes of existence, Plane Shift, Detect "Evil/Good" Planar, Ethereal, Summoning)

ABJURATION
= Abjuration (thematic reuse of the other Schools for the purpose of Healing, resurrecting, protecting, and empowering)

NECROMANCY
= Necromancy (thematic reuse of the other Schools for "darkside" flavor, Undead, plus Fiend, Aberration, plus insanity, disintegration)


Note.

Conjuration is only planar, shifting thru levels of existence (matter, spirit, mind), and not Teleportion thru three-dimensional space.

Illusion is actual constructs, made out of ethereal "force" aka "magical energy", typically with light-sound only, but can exert physical force as if a solid object, and can be invisible.

Possibly make both Teleportation and Chronomancy a normal part of Divination. Divination is too passive but combine effectively and thematically with Teleportation effects, including temporal effects of Chronomancy.

Transmutation is strictly, only, Earth and Plant and Beast. Except various species relate to Beast (Human, Dragon) or Elemental.

With these minor organization tweaks, the Spell Schools that have been around since 1e become a powerful and thematic way of organizing spells, and helping to build thematically salient character concepts.


The selection of Spell School categories can help define the flavors of the Swordmage subclasses.

 

[Yaarel]

One reason why I'd rather have a half caster swordmage, is that is allows more power to go into cool and unique subclass abilities. Rather than blowing the entire power budget on spells. It's one reason for why I love artificer so much. Any artificer subclass basically feels like an entirely different class.

The other way around, it is possible for a Swordmage fullcaster class to have a subclass that swaps out spell slots in exchange for martial features. This helps the less magey subclass remain a competent caster at the highest tiers − fewer slots but still able to access the highest slot levels.

 

[FrogReaver]

The other way around, it is possible for a Swordmage fullcaster class to have a subclass that swaps out spell slots in exchange for martial features. This helps the less magey subclass remain a competent caster at the highest tiers − fewer slots but still able to access the highest slot levels

I’m not a big fan of subclasses taking away class features.

 

[mellored]

Because all 4e classes use "powers",

Which is the same thing as a spell. You select the effect, use it once, and need to rest before you use it again.

All 4e classes where full casters.

it is designwise just as easy to translate the 4e Swordmage into a 5e fullcaster or a 5e noncaster.

4e Swordmage was pretty good IMO. So copying that would be easy.

The concept is a "Defender Role" tanky Wizard
A melee-range Mage is novel for the 5e design space. It is worthwhile having.

The 5e Swordmage must be a fullcaster.

Those are 2 very different things.

5e doesnt need an other separate class that is same as a Paladin or Ranger or even an Artificer, or Eldritch Knight.

5e doesn't need another separate class that is the same as Wizard or Bard or even a Sorcerer, or a Druid.
Or cleric.

(Likewise the Warlord as a nonmagic controller buffer healer is worthwhile having.)

Sure.
But warlords don't need to have multiple attacks. Or weapon mastery. Or even martial weapon proficiency.

They might, but none of that is required.

The "Aegis" is a versatile teleport feature that targets a hostile. It can allow the Swordmage to continually teleport to melee the target, or teleport with the target away, or displace thus debuff the damage by the target.

Yes. Though it's not a spell. It's an at-will effect.

And the more power budget you put into spells, the less you get in Aegis.

you can't have full spells and full Aegis.

 

[mellored]

Personally, I think I want them to be a skirmisher with striker-controller abilities, single target spike damage mixed alongside smaller AoE attacks that have rider effects to disable or manipulate opponents.

If your making a new class, there is plenty of room for Defender, Skirmisher, and Controller options.

I mean, 4e kinda already had that.

Aegis of Shielding
Aegis of Assault
Aegis of Ensnarement

 

[bedir than]

With the "power source" spell lists failed to gain traction during the playtests. It is unclear how the spell lists will organize thematically.

But 2024 would do best to focus on making the traditional Spell Schools more sensical and useful.


The thematics for every single spell that has ever existed in D&D in any edition looks something like the following. A few spells are complex with a number of moving parts that entangle more than one category, but the categories are as follows.

ELEMENTAL
= Evocation (airy wind, airy Lightning-Thunder, watery Cold, fiery Fire-Radiant light-darkness, Elemental Chaos primordial elemental energies)
= Transmutation (earthy stone, metal, crystal, etcetera, Plant, Beast, body, shapeshift, fabricating objects, evoke or become an Elemental form)

FORCE
= Dunomancy (all "force" effects, gravitational force, antigravity, telekinesis, telekinetic flight, Fly, Force damage, Magic Missile)
= Illusion (objectively existing force constructs, whether invisible force armor, Wall of Force, Unseen Servant, or visible reality simulations)

SPACE-TIME
= Divination (psychic precognition whether predictive or of past events, or acquisition of knowledge and expertise)
= Teleportation (jumping thru space, Misty Step, Teleport, Haste, Time Stop, plus extradimensional spaces, such as Rope Trick)
= Chronomancy (jumping thru time or altering time)

ENCHANTMENT
= Enchantment (all telepathic mind-affecting spells, including "phantasms" that alter the senses of a target)

CONJURATION
= Conjuration (all planar spells that alter or perceive other planes of existence, Plane Shift, Detect "Evil/Good" Planar, Ethereal, Summoning)

ABJURATION
= Abjuration (thematic reuse of the other Schools for the purpose of Healing, resurrecting, protecting, and empowering)

NECROMANCY
= Necromancy (thematic reuse of the other Schools for "darkside" flavor, Undead, plus Fiend, Aberration, plus insanity, disintegration)


Note.

Conjuration is only planar, shifting thru levels of existence (matter, spirit, mind), and not Teleportion thru three-dimensional space.

Illusion is actual constructs, made out of ethereal "force" aka "magical energy", typically with light-sound only, but can exert physical force as if a solid object, and can be invisible.

Possibly make both Teleportation and Chronomancy a normal part of Divination. Divination is too passive but combine effectively and thematically with Teleportation effects, including temporal effects of Chronomancy.

Transmutation is strictly, only, Earth and Plant and Beast. Except various species relate to Beast (Human, Dragon) or Elemental.

With these minor organization tweaks, the Spell Schools that have been around since 1e become a powerful and thematic way of organizing spells, and helping to build thematically salient character concepts.


The selection of Spell School categories can help define the flavors of the Swordmage subclasses.

You want them to reorder, as well as create, spell schools so you can have a new class? That would impact every other class in the game, just to create one that may/may not be a full caster who also is better at melee than almost everyone.


That seems like a big ask

 

[Yaarel]

Which is the same thing as a spell. You select the effect, use it once, and need to rest before you use it again.

All 4e classes where full casters.

That is correct. In the sense of the "power" format, all 4e classes were defacto fullcasters.

More specifically, the 4e classes are most like the 5e Warlock chassis − with a good assortment of "at will" spells (cantrips), "encounter" spells (per short rest), high level "daily" spells (arcanums per long rest), plus an ad-hoc assortment of choosable class features (invocations) that might be always-on, per turn, per short rest, or per long rest.

I feel deeply the Warlock chassis, being the mechanics but not the class concept, makes the best chassis for the 5e Psion class.

It looks like the Warlock chassis might also be the best chassis for a 5e Swordmage class.

Meanwhile, the abundance of the "invocations" design space allows for the "cool class features" to choose from.

4e Swordmage was pretty good IMO. So copying that would be easy.

Yeah. I wish the 4e Swordmage did unarmed strike augments as well. Hopefully, the 5e Swordmage will.

Those are 2 very different things.

They can be the same thing.

The spells can make the "Defender Wizard" a tank. The hit points come from healing and regeneration, and damage resistance. The AC comes from scaling force armor, or mage armor, or turning into air or stone, or so on.

The tank Mage uses magic to function effectively in melee.

5e doesn't need another separate class that is the same as Wizard or Bard or even a Sorcerer, or a Druid.
Or cleric.

Heh, even the Sorcerer is probably one fullcaster too many. But these have their fans and cant be removed from 5e.

None of them do what a melee Swordmage fullcaster does.

Sure.
But warlords don't need to have multiple attacks. Or weapon mastery. Or even martial weapon proficiency. They might, but none of that is required.

In my eyes, the Warlord is the "educated" aristocratic warrior. It still is an effective warrior. They probably need multiple attacks, but with the ability to "spend" them to marshal and coach teammates to grant them free attacks by using their Reactions. They need martial proficiency − they are well trained themselves, as well as able to train and lead others. Not sure about the new Weapon Mastery for the Warlord, it might be more like a trick by an experienced user.

Yes. Though it's not a spell. It's an at-will effect.

And the more power budget you put into spells, the less you get in Aegis.

you can't have full spells and full Aegis.

It is possible to use a spell slot for an "always on" effect. I might talk more about this later.

In the meantime, the Aegis and other cool features can be part of the Invocation design space if using the Warlock chassis.


Precisely because the Warlock class has Arcanum that access the highest slot levels, I consider the Warlock a competent fullcaster.

 

[Yaarel]

You want them to reorder, as well as create, spell schools so you can have a new class? That would impact every other class in the game, just to create one that may/may not be a full caster who also is better at melee than almost everyone.


That seems like a big ask

With regard to the tweaking of the Spell Schools − including using the 5e Dunamancy School − this tweaking would be for the spells themselves, which the Wizard, Cleric, and all casters refer to.

There is little change except tightening the definition of each school for clarity, and relocating a handful of spells, like force effects to Dunamancy and phantasms to Enchantment. The spells and even spell schools will look largely the same as they do now, except be more meaningful and more useful.

 

[Corinnguard]

I've always love the Swordmage concept. The mystical aspects of the Book of Nine Swords were fun too. But neither were Arcane Spellcasting Warriors. They were Mystical Warriors like a monk with maneuvers.

The Swordsage class.

Martial Adepts[edit]​

Martial Adepts are the base classes introduced in Tome of Battle. Two of the three classes parallel existing classes, but gain different class features, as well as access to the powerful techniques of the Sublime Way: Crusader, which parallels the religious strictures of the Paladin (but unlike the Paladin, the Crusader class can be used to make a character of any alignment), and Warblade, which parallels the pure martial prowess of the Fighter. The third, the Swordsage, is most like a Monk in nature, but has more customizable features. Swordsages are best compared to the philosopher-swordsmen of the Wuxia film genre.

Laser Llama created a Swordsage subclass a while back for the 5e Fighter. https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-M0i_wbRAX8qAz1OIjbF

 

[Corinnguard]

Yes I have. They tend to have a lot of noteworthy class abilities like the warlock but more balance and less of this & this

For the last couple of months, I have been playing a Ranger, my first attempt at playing a Half-caster. It's been something of an interesting challenge.