D&D (2024) How should the Swordmage be implemented in 1DnD?

[Shardstone]

One of the things I gave my swordmage class was a rune weapon at 1st level which gives it the arcane property (allows use of intelligence instead of strengh/dexterity for attack and damage) as well as making the weapon magical. It also allows for a small damage bonus chosen from cold, fire, lightning, or thunder damage though I'm instead thinking that they can instead change the weapons damage type to one of those instead of an additional bonus, which probably wouldn't require the weapon to be magical since you can instead just change the damage type.

This is what I've done too! Not the same exact mechanics but close; in my Pendragon class (which I'll be posting at some point), they start with a Mythic Weapon. I ended up sketching out 33~ new weapon-based spells (including 12 cantrips) and realized that I could really just put the Spellblade (with spellstrike) into a subclass instead of the main class by having the mythic weapon at level 1.

 

[tetrasodium]

Attacking 3 people could be done if the character was 5th level or higher ,and was fighting with two weapons (with or without the aid of the Two-Weapon Fighting style). Under normal circumstances, you can split up your attacks so long as your opponents are within 5 feet of you. If I remember correctly, the Two-Weapon Fighting style in 5e2024 no longer uses the bonus action. So this covers half of this particular conundrum.
Still working on the teleport 2 times in a single turn part.

That's not an equivalence, it's an example of one obvious problems for the GM to rebalance around that are caused by the punpun derived design like "teleport two times and attack three people" or the example in 241.

 

[mellored]

That's not an equivalence, it's an example of one obvious problems for the GM to rebalance around that are caused by the punpun derived design like "teleport two times and attack three people" or the example in 241.

And how exactly is that overpowered?

Fireball does 8d6 (36)
Scorching Ray is 3 attacks.
Misty Step teleports 30'.

Chain Slashing would do a max of 2d6+5 (12), and teleport 10'*2 = 20'. Assuming a 2-hander.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Part of the reason I like spellstrike as a concept is because it cuts down on the amount of new mechanics required to make a dedicated Swordmage work. Having to come up with around 30 spells isn't too hard, but it is a lot of new content you have to make for a satisfying Swordmage. When you can just channel spells through the sword, you can get away with making fewer spells for the Swordmage. But, I understand to some that a spell list carries a lot of flavor, so maybe it's best if the Swordmage goes the route of making 30+ new spells regardless.

I'd argue that if a lot of these 'gishy' spells could be shared between swordmage, paladin, warlock, ranger, some bards, and some artificers, then the return on investment is much greater. While also helping the experience for other classes who juggle combat and magic.

It's a bit like how wizard has to have an insane amount of spells made for it. But as most of them are shared among at least one other full caster, it's worth that investment to make them.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The issue with halfcasters is that D&D is so blind to the worth of spellcasting that rarely does the halfcaster actually get equal weight in their non-caster half to balance out the loss of... literally being the thing the game cares about.

Fighting? /s

Being more serious there have been arguably four official half-casters in 5e. No one seriously complains about the power of the paladin. PHB Ranger was a problem but Tasha's ranger (counting it separately is how I get to four) can hold its own. And other than not making any permanent items the Battle Smith artificer only really falls behind in the teens while the artillerist can hold up in some play styles (the canon lasting one hour before breaking is fine with some pacings and crippling in others).

The big trick that keeps the paladin in the game is that smites cheat the action economy. And that the casters don't have that many spells (even at level 17 they have seven levels 1-2 spells (and a level 17 Firebolt is worth a Scorching Ray), six level 3-4, and six level 5+)

 

[Neonchameleon]

And how exactly is that overpowered?

Fireball does 8d6 (36)
Scorching Ray is 3 attacks.
Misty Step teleports 30'.

Chain Slashing would do a max of 2d6+5 (12), and teleport 10'*2 = 20'. Assuming a 2-hander.

If that's all you can get out of a two handed attack you're not really trying (great weapon master, magic weapons such as a Flametongue Longsword). Also I think you mean 8d6 (28)? 8d8 would average 36.

But you still need to work pretty hard to get 28 damage off a single attack.

 

[mellored]

If that's all you can get out of a two handed attack you're not really trying (great weapon master, magic weapons such as a Flametongue Longsword). Also I think you mean 8d6 (28)? 8d8 would average 36.

But you still need to work pretty hard to get 28 damage off a single attack.

Great Weapon Master is nerfed the playtest.

But even with old GWM, Flametongue, and ignoring the accuracy penalty, feat cost, and dealing nothing on a miss.
You get 26.5.

Still slightly less than (correct) 28 for fireball.

 

[tetrasodium]

And how exactly is that overpowered?

Fireball does 8d6 (36)
Scorching Ray is 3 attacks.
Misty Step teleports 30'.

Chain Slashing would do a max of 2d6+5 (12), and teleport 10'*2 = 20'. Assuming a 2-hander.

Easy... Those are not the correct numbers for what you described

Spoiler: here it is

 It is an AoE. Attak 3 people not attack the same person 3 times.

Same as Chain Lighting, but with a sword. Or a lower level Steelwind Stike, which hits 5 people and teleports.

Chain Slashing. 3rd level.
Action
Range: Self
Components: S, M (a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp)
Teleport 10' and make a melee attack. Then teleport 10' and make a melee attack. You may not target the same creature more than once. Roll your damage only once and apply it to all target hit.
At Higher level. You can teleport and attack one additional time for every 2 levels. The teleport range also increases by 5'.

The correct numbers are 2d6+5+[THE WEAPON'S MODS★]+[MANEUVER]+[FIGHTING STYLE]+[2024'S POWER ATTACK ANALOG(?)] [OTHER CLASS/MC ABILITIES]... then teleport repeat

★ie +1/+2/+3/+extra dice/secondary effects/etc

 

[mellored]

The correct numbers are 2d6+5+[THE WEAPON'S MODS★]+[MANEUVER]+[FIGHTING STYLE]+[2024'S POWER ATTACK ANALOG(?)] [OTHER CLASS/MC ABILITIES]... then teleport repeat

★ie +1/+2/+3/+extra dice/secondary effects/etc

Fair point about fighting style and maneuvers. But valor bard and Bladesinger don't get them.

If they multiclass, they are behind on slots. So you'd need to compare with a higher level fireball.

Eldritch Knight won't get it till 13th level, and they have 3 attacks at-will at that point. So this just adds some movement.

Battlesmith gets it at 9. But there is also haste at level 3. Which will give them 3 attacks and extra movement.

Great Weapon Master playtest requires the Attack action and is + proficiency damage once per turn. So it won't add.

 

[Yaarel]

I wish Strength was actually a worthwhile ability in its own right, so that it is thinkable to invest in it, for Swordmage and even a Wizard.

I hate dumping Strength. I hate that it has little worth.

That said.


When a caster wields a sword or other weapon by means of magic, there are several ways to do it.

One way is, a class feature substitutes the casting ability in place of the ability for attack and damage, whether Strength or Dexterity.

It is also possible to create a Shillelagh-like cantrip. In this case, when preparing the cantrip, it grants proficiency with one martial weapon, and when using it to attack and damage, the casting ability can replace the Strength or Dexterity for it. Likewise when preparing it, choose a damage type. It deals either this damage type or the weapon damage type, your choice. At higher levels, the damage increases.