James McMurray
First Post
Luckily those are not the only two options.
How to kill a blue dragon?
- Thread starter Orcus Porkus
- Start date
Luckily those are not the only two options.
Engilbrand
First Post
Lizard, I usually read your posts as rather critical of 4th edition. I haven't seen them in a while, though. I hope that your post was not in jest. Because it's exactly how I look at it all.
When I DM, that's the sort of stuff that I do. There's a Swordmage power that roots a guy in place through magical energy. I described the ground coming up around the guys legs. When he teleported away, the ground reformed around him. He was confused, but he got it. There was a point where something hit him hard and said that he would take damage if he moved. I described the guy hitting the ground and causing a chunk of rock to hit him. The other rocks around him were vibrating off of the ground. When he moved, they flew through the air and slammed into him. He thought that it was pretty cool.
It's through reflavoring, as has been said, that people are able to describe Rays of Frost and ghosts causing the person to feel cold, or Cloud of Daggers suddenly having zombie hands burst from the ground.
The mechanics are not the physics of the game world. People only yell the moves they're doing in anime and certain martial arts movies. In D&D, they spin around and hack at someone's neck, or they put a shoulder into a shield and use the proximity to pin a foot to the ground.
It's why the book flat out states that you should feel free to reflavor anything. The powers, the flavor text, and the names are all tied together for the default assumptions of the world, but it's only the mechanics that matter.
When I DM, that's the sort of stuff that I do. There's a Swordmage power that roots a guy in place through magical energy. I described the ground coming up around the guys legs. When he teleported away, the ground reformed around him. He was confused, but he got it. There was a point where something hit him hard and said that he would take damage if he moved. I described the guy hitting the ground and causing a chunk of rock to hit him. The other rocks around him were vibrating off of the ground. When he moved, they flew through the air and slammed into him. He thought that it was pretty cool.
It's through reflavoring, as has been said, that people are able to describe Rays of Frost and ghosts causing the person to feel cold, or Cloud of Daggers suddenly having zombie hands burst from the ground.
The mechanics are not the physics of the game world. People only yell the moves they're doing in anime and certain martial arts movies. In D&D, they spin around and hack at someone's neck, or they put a shoulder into a shield and use the proximity to pin a foot to the ground.
It's why the book flat out states that you should feel free to reflavor anything. The powers, the flavor text, and the names are all tied together for the default assumptions of the world, but it's only the mechanics that matter.
RyvenCedrylle
First Post
The question I ask myself upon seeing this is "what are my players' payoffs?" That is, what is it that makes them like playing the game?
If my players are in it to spam powers and roll dice, then it is well within the spirit of the edition to simply have the thing land and fight them in melee. Odds are the players won't notice or care about the disconnect. I can't say I would personally play in a group like this for long, but it's the right thing to do for a certain type of player. And yes, Illusory Chasm works fine here.
If your players are really old-school, and like solving nearly impossible puzzles as players, then the dragon stays airborne and does everything possible to avoid their attacks and hit them without fear of reprisal. Let them roleplay leaping off a cliff onto the dragon's head or whatever. They're probably going to run away and regroup if they don't dream up something better. Illusory Chasm doesn't work here.
Somewhere in the middle of this spectrum, I might allow a Skill challenge to force the dragon down into melee (Bluff to taunt, Athletics to throw ropes, etc.), but would avoid actual combat mechanics until this challenge either passes or fails.
My two cents.
If my players are in it to spam powers and roll dice, then it is well within the spirit of the edition to simply have the thing land and fight them in melee. Odds are the players won't notice or care about the disconnect. I can't say I would personally play in a group like this for long, but it's the right thing to do for a certain type of player. And yes, Illusory Chasm works fine here.
If your players are really old-school, and like solving nearly impossible puzzles as players, then the dragon stays airborne and does everything possible to avoid their attacks and hit them without fear of reprisal. Let them roleplay leaping off a cliff onto the dragon's head or whatever. They're probably going to run away and regroup if they don't dream up something better. Illusory Chasm doesn't work here.
Somewhere in the middle of this spectrum, I might allow a Skill challenge to force the dragon down into melee (Bluff to taunt, Athletics to throw ropes, etc.), but would avoid actual combat mechanics until this challenge either passes or fails.
My two cents.
James McMurray
First Post
According to the Draconomicon
James McMurray
First Post
So a blue (and possibly others) should stay airborne. However, I still think they should stay at or bouncing in and out of a height of ten. When their breath recharges they should definitely move in close enough to use it. And when the fight gets too frustrating for the players, they should leave or come in close. It's supposed to be a fun game, not an excerise in frustration and boredom.
Dragons are supposed to be SMART. Sure they might give you small openings, but they're not just going to walk in. Killing a dragon SHOULD be a major accomplishment requiring strategy, skill and some luck even. Just standing toe-to-toe does not favor a dragon at all. If a group is too dumb to fight it, so be it. The Dragon shouldn't sit at 20 spaces either, but should strafe, breath, etc. to give him an advantage when possible.
DrSpunj
Explorer
But overall it sounds very natural for the Young Blue to strafe a round or three and, if it gave more damage to the PCs than it took, fly away for awhile feeling superior. As a DM that might be the best way to get my players to really focus on how the PCs can best deal with this threat. They might or might not have the right combination of ranged weapons, powers, magic items and whatever else to truly take this Young Blue on with a reasonable chance of success. If they do, great, the next time I bring him back around I know we're probably going to really get into this battle.
If not, the next time I bring him around I'll strafe them a few more times and my players will hopefully run & hide or have already beat feet out of the dragon's hunting range and I've just added another name to my DM's list of "recurring villains", probably after the party has taken time to outfit themselves better and are looking forward to fighting that arrogant dragon again.
That's a win-win situation for everyone!
And for the record, I'd be okay with a player reflavoring the Illusion spell, but since I don't allow anything from Dragon without my explicit approval hopefully we would have reworked the flavor text & name well before we actually came across this situation in a game. I agree with Dragon material being not playtested & edited to the same standards as book material. There's a lot of good stuff in there idea-wise, though, to build around if a player is looking for something specific for a good character concept.
Thanks
But overall it sounds very natural for the Young Blue to strafe a round or three and, if it gave more damage to the PCs than it took, fly away for awhile feeling superior. As a DM that might be the best way to get my players to really focus on how the PCs can best deal with this threat. They might or might not have the right combination of ranged weapons, powers, magic items and whatever else to truly take this Young Blue on with a reasonable chance of success. If they do, great, the next time I bring him back around I know we're probably going to really get into this battle.
If not, the next time I bring him around I'll strafe them a few more times and my players will hopefully run & hide or have already beat feet out of the dragon's hunting range and I've just added another name to my DM's list of "recurring villains", probably after the party has taken time to outfit themselves better and are looking forward to fighting that arrogant dragon again.
That's a win-win situation for everyone!
Thanks
Agreed, it would be quite the arrogant thing to do for the dragon if he didnt get damaged much! But if he gets hit a couple of times i really see him throwing himself down on the PCs, snatching one with his claws, flying up, biting him and throwing him down before flying away just for the hell of it!
(kidnapping him would be nice too... but maybe it would be better to save that for an NPC 
) Hey do we have any rule to handle flyby-snatching?
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