D&D (2024) How to simply fix Ranger in 2024.

[ECMO3]

I think it does not.
If you look at your games and mine, I guess it is 50% divide.

Well according to Treantmonk it does.

Yes. And I challenged that assumption.

Ok then what assumptions are you using? The math is still simple.

2014 video. Different game regarding bonus actions

Hunter's Mark spell works the same and it is the same in terms of bonus action consumption. Treantmonk mentions in his new video on Rangers from two weeks ago that Hunter's Mark "is going to use bonus actions."

You were not arguing here on this thread that it is easier for a Ranger to use Hunter's Mark effectively in the new rules (it is), you were arguing that Hunter's Mark does not regularly use a bonus action.

Players still have to use their bonus action for Hunter's Mark A LOT to get consistent damage from it. That may not be the case in your game, but it is the case in most. If I pick up a random game to DM on the roll20 forum this weekend and it has a player with HM or Hex in it, it will almost certainly be the case in that game.

Since we are talking about the new rules, the 2024 PHB was released to the general public a little over week ago, a month and a half ago it came out on early release to people at Gen Con then later on DNDB and FLGS. You claim it does not happen in your games, how many game sessions have you played with a Ranger since the 2024 rules came out?

It should not be your best play. It is a very low resource option in 2024.

I agree with this, but it is a low resource option that is going to gobble up your bonus action ...... just like Treantmonk and Pack Tactics and DNDShorts say.

 

[Horwath]

Spellpoints is poor system due to how incompatible it is with DND dungeon design.

D&D spells are not designed on a linear scale.
D&D spells casting system was designed based on vibes and tropes not math.

works fine, IMHO.

just resist the urge to cast everything at highest possible level, if you do, get ready to be on cantrips 80% of the rounds.
But, if you want, you can blast 8× 5th level spells at 9th level. or 28× 1st level spell.

 

[Horwath]

Ranger's still have to use their bonus action for Hunter's Mark A LOT. That may not be the case in your game, but it is the case in over 90% of them

what I have seen, if it's not THE boss fight of the chapter, it's every 2nd round at best and every round at worst.

 

[Minigiant]

what I have seen, if it's not THE boss fight of the chapter, it's every 2nd round at best and every round at worst.

Then your game is too casual for the level of optimization the players are running. The DM has to adjust or you have to be used to the game being a little bit wonky.

You can't use optimize build from the forums, Reddit, and YouTube along with Monty Hall weapons and inspect that this base assumption which assumes you are a bunch of novice players with no magic items is going to run correctly without adjustment.

 

[Horwath]

Then your game is too casual for the level of optimization the players are running. The DM has to adjust or you have to be used to the game being a little bit wonky.

You can't use optimize build from the forums, Reddit, and YouTube along with Monty Hall weapons and inspect that this base assumption which assumes you are a bunch of novice players with no magic items is going to run correctly without adjustment.

how is casual that 5 PCs are always focus firing one target at a time?

Unless you just put in a single huge sack of HPs so everyone can bash on it for 5 rounds?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Well according to Treantmonk it does.

Maybe. But his games are also higher tactical optimization than ours.

Ok then what assumptions are you using? The math is still simple.

Never said it is not simple. Just the assumption that enemies take a few rounds to kill.

Hunter's Mark spell works the same and it is the same in terms of bonus action consumption. Treantmonk mentions in his new video on Rangers from two weeks ago that Hunter's Mark "is going to use bonus actions."

Yes. But TWF does not necessarily.

You were not arguing here on this thread that it is easier for a Ranger to use Hunter's Mark effectively in the new rules (it is), you were arguing that Hunter's Mark does not regularly use a bonus action.

Yeah. So you did not claim that favoured foe is better. Try read the whole communication again.

Players still have to use their bonus action for Hunter's Mark A LOT to get consistent damage from it.

They don't have to get consitent damage. Only more than from favoured foe.
And if you are switching targets a lot. Use a different spell.

That may not be the case in your game, but it is the case in most.

Data please.
You are convenently overlooking that I have more than one game as do you.
So your limited view is better than mine?
That is some kind of bias.

If I pick up a random game to DM on the roll20 forum this weekend and it has a player with HM or Hex in it, it will almost certainly be the case in that game.

Roll 20 has self selecting bias. As it is a virtual battlemap, you will find more players thatvare tactically adept.

Since we are talking about the new rules, the 2024 PHB was released to the general public a little over week ago, a month and a half ago it came out on early release to people at Gen Con then later on DNDB and FLGS. You claim it does not happen in your games, how many game sessions have you played with a Ranger since the 2024 rules came out?

Not a lot. As do you. I am extrapolating from my games as you do. Again.
I said that I expect 2024 favoured enemy hunter's mark to outpace favoured foe easily in games, because favoured foe just does less in most cases. And the cases where it is better, favoured foe or enemy is not needed at all.

I agree with this, but it is a low resource option that is going to gobble up your bonus action ...... just like Treantmonk and Pack Tactics and DNDShorts say.

Two of them are bad analysts. On treantmonk is credible. And he is totally fine with a ranger that has hunter's mark. At least until now.


So please. Get your facts straight. Get your math straight. Learn how to actually do analyses and then com back.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

6× 1st level spell slots(that we get in the end from "free" HM) is 12 spell points.
those 12 spellpoints at later levels could be spent better on higher level spells. That is extra 5th and 3rd level spell slot. or 2× 4th level spell slots.

That is not how you can trade them.

at that level, I would rather have 2× casting of Summon elemental or extra Swift quiver and Conjure barrage.

Of course. But as I said. Not every resource can be converted 1 on 1.

 

[Minigiant]

how is casual that 5 PCs are always focus firing one target at a time?

Unless you just put in a single huge sack of HPs so everyone can bash on it for 5 rounds?

The builds are casual.

5e was designed on the concept of you playing a dwarf fighter champion with no feats, no magic items, and STR/CON being top damage.

 

[Horwath]

The builds are casual.

5e was designed on the concept of you playing a dwarf fighter champion with no feats, no magic items, and STR/CON.

maybe 2014 version, 2024 is with default feats and multiclassing and probably magic items.

so this all argument must be taken with higher complexity and skill floor of 2024 version.

 

[Minigiant]

maybe 2014 version, 2024 is with default feats and multiclassing and probably magic items.

so this all argument must be taken with higher complexity and skill floor of 2024 version.

looks at the 2024 DMG and Monster with updated encounter rules

Wait. We don't have that yet.

I guess everyone who is playing something better than a champion fighter with no feats is over optimized for current D&D still.