How to you handle Secret Rolls
- Thread starter EOL
- Start date
EOL
First Post
I'm surprised that no one has selected other.
My opinion is that people in RL generally know how well they performed a particular task, so it's fine to let the PC's roll as long as they role-play the result. However once in a while in RL you're completely wrong, so I was thinking of a system, and I'll probably post this over in House rules but essentially when the players rolled a check I would also roll, and if I rolled a 20 then the players die is inverted 20's become 1's a 6 would become a 15, just to represent one of those times when their feel for how well they did was completely off.
I wouldn't do it on those occasions where everyone is making a listen check and 3 players have already made the DC, but I think it would keep the players from meta-gaming DC's more.
My opinion is that people in RL generally know how well they performed a particular task, so it's fine to let the PC's roll as long as they role-play the result. However once in a while in RL you're completely wrong, so I was thinking of a system, and I'll probably post this over in House rules but essentially when the players rolled a check I would also roll, and if I rolled a 20 then the players die is inverted 20's become 1's a 6 would become a 15, just to represent one of those times when their feel for how well they did was completely off.
I wouldn't do it on those occasions where everyone is making a listen check and 3 players have already made the DC, but I think it would keep the players from meta-gaming DC's more.
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The_lone_gunman
First Post
i roll everything now because I'm tired of the
"how did he see me, I rolled a 28 on my hide!"
"I rolled a 24 on my appraise so this must be the correct cost."
"Ahh man I rolled a 2 on my search, I better check again."
I grow weary of the metagaming.....so now I roll them all myself
.
Plus, one of my players had a critical failure on a secret door search check (I rolled), and I managed to convince him that there was a secret door in a spot where there wasn't. He spent like 5 min trying to figure out how to open the secret door. Man that was a good time for everyone LOL.
I tend to agree that there are some skills where it is obvious whether you succeed or not, however, I find that rolling skill checks for them is much more interesting. I am not sure how far I will take it or if I will allow them to roll any at all......
TLG
"how did he see me, I rolled a 28 on my hide!"
"I rolled a 24 on my appraise so this must be the correct cost."
"Ahh man I rolled a 2 on my search, I better check again."
I grow weary of the metagaming.....so now I roll them all myself
.Plus, one of my players had a critical failure on a secret door search check (I rolled), and I managed to convince him that there was a secret door in a spot where there wasn't. He spent like 5 min trying to figure out how to open the secret door. Man that was a good time for everyone LOL.
I tend to agree that there are some skills where it is obvious whether you succeed or not, however, I find that rolling skill checks for them is much more interesting. I am not sure how far I will take it or if I will allow them to roll any at all......
TLG
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
I had to vote for "Some Other Method" because there are some instances where it really doesn't matter. I generally keep those rolls secret but...
Let's say there is combat happening and one fo the players wants to know if he, while in combat, noticed that something was happening on the other side of the room with a buddy who is also in combat but theoretically needs some help. Obviously, it's a spot check, but since the cat is already out of the bag (I had to describe what was happening to his buddy aloud), I state whatever the applicable modifiers are and let the player roll.
Same goes for a situation where one player's character hears a noise, but others immediately ask if they heard it also. Or similar situations where one character finds something during a search.
I've found that if you keep those rolls secret, the player is more apt to try and wheedle their way around the roll, ALA "Well, I walk over to that area to look or hear for something else."
If I let them roll the attempt and they fail, they generally don't press the issue and go on with whatever they were doing in the first place. *shrug*
Let's say there is combat happening and one fo the players wants to know if he, while in combat, noticed that something was happening on the other side of the room with a buddy who is also in combat but theoretically needs some help. Obviously, it's a spot check, but since the cat is already out of the bag (I had to describe what was happening to his buddy aloud), I state whatever the applicable modifiers are and let the player roll.
Same goes for a situation where one player's character hears a noise, but others immediately ask if they heard it also. Or similar situations where one character finds something during a search.
I've found that if you keep those rolls secret, the player is more apt to try and wheedle their way around the roll, ALA "Well, I walk over to that area to look or hear for something else."
If I let them roll the attempt and they fail, they generally don't press the issue and go on with whatever they were doing in the first place. *shrug*
Thanee
First Post
I let the players roll usually (even spot and listen), but I make secret rolls sometimes, when something happens, which I do not want to alarm them about by anouncing a roll. This rarely happens, tho, since 'roll listen and spot, please' is just too common to know, if there is anything important happening, and if the players roll low, they usually do not begin to watch their surroundings with paranoia! 
Also I let them roll on many occasions, where something completely unimportant happens to them, so the 'roll listen and spot, please' phrase is not as alarming as it might be.
Usually, when it is used to determine an ambush, for example, surprise round starts, after the roll is made, so there is no time to react 'to the roll itself by metagaming' anyways.
Again, if there is something, which they might notice, or when a skill roll is applicable (sense motive is one good example in this context, announcing a sense motive roll can give away a lot), and I do not want them to know anything about, I make the roll secretly.
Some skills (I already stated sense motive, disable device might be another one of these) are best handled by secret rolls, while most skills can be performed by the players themselves, as long as they do not heavily metagame (like that 'I rolled low on search, let's search again' example above - dude, use take 20 if you want to find everything!).
So my answer is... depends!
Bye
Thanee
Also I let them roll on many occasions, where something completely unimportant happens to them, so the 'roll listen and spot, please' phrase is not as alarming as it might be.
Usually, when it is used to determine an ambush, for example, surprise round starts, after the roll is made, so there is no time to react 'to the roll itself by metagaming' anyways.
Again, if there is something, which they might notice, or when a skill roll is applicable (sense motive is one good example in this context, announcing a sense motive roll can give away a lot), and I do not want them to know anything about, I make the roll secretly.
Some skills (I already stated sense motive, disable device might be another one of these) are best handled by secret rolls, while most skills can be performed by the players themselves, as long as they do not heavily metagame (like that 'I rolled low on search, let's search again' example above - dude, use take 20 if you want to find everything!
).So my answer is... depends!
Bye
Thanee
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SableWyvern
Cruel Despot
I work in pretty much the same way as Thanee.
Generally, if the character is making an active decision to use a skill, and may not be aware of whether or not he was successful, I'll make the roll (eg, searching for traps, trying to discern a lie etc...).
If, OTOH, I ask for a roll, I'll let them make it - because they don't know whether the roll is actually relevant anyway (eg, elves passing secret doors, noisy orcs approaching, DM asking for Fort save to make players paranoid).
Actually, speaking of saves, in most circumstances I allow players to make their own saves, but throw in an occasional red herring roll. They never know the DCs for these rolls.
When I make a roll for a PC, I usually give them an indication of how they rolled descriptively:
EG:
You are certain that there are no traps (good roll, or terrible roll and there are traps).
You don't find any traps (typical success or failure).
You have a bit of a look, but don't spot anything that looks traplike (average roll for someone with few ranks).
etc....
Generally, if the character is making an active decision to use a skill, and may not be aware of whether or not he was successful, I'll make the roll (eg, searching for traps, trying to discern a lie etc...).
If, OTOH, I ask for a roll, I'll let them make it - because they don't know whether the roll is actually relevant anyway (eg, elves passing secret doors, noisy orcs approaching, DM asking for Fort save to make players paranoid).
Actually, speaking of saves, in most circumstances I allow players to make their own saves, but throw in an occasional red herring roll. They never know the DCs for these rolls.
When I make a roll for a PC, I usually give them an indication of how they rolled descriptively:
EG:
You are certain that there are no traps (good roll, or terrible roll and there are traps).
You don't find any traps (typical success or failure).
You have a bit of a look, but don't spot anything that looks traplike (average roll for someone with few ranks).
etc....
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