D&D 5E How would changing bows to Str-only change the game?

[Yardiff]

Would replacing dex to damage with expanding the crit range (say range equals 20 minus half your dex bonus [minimum zero]) work? (with some adjustment in case there are any dex-based champions out there).

Not sure what your asking? Personally I don't think dex to damage was a good idea. What I've heard as justification for adding dex bonus to damage has been things like: Attacks are hitting 'vital spots' is why I add my dex bonus to damage. Attacks a precision attacks so dex to damage. The velocity/speed of the attack (whipping the weapons around dexterously) adds dex to damage. etc (cant think of others at this time).


I don't find these reasoning to make all that much sense.


This is just my opinion. Dex to Damage is one of my "Most Frustrating Quirk of 5e".

 

[DEFCON 1]

Adding DEX to damage makes the utmost sense when looked at through the proper lens.

The 5E designers decided...

"We want all players of imaginary people to be able to do comparable amounts of fake random numbers regardless of the ways those players fantasize those imaginary people moving around and using nonexistent items."

Once you accept that the game is designed such that every player is meant to produce relatively equal numbers in various combinations and then on top of that, layer this thin veneer of illusory "story" to give theoretical meaning to those numbers in an attempt to suspend our disbelief... the idea of letting players of imaginary nimble people do similar amounts of fake numbers as the players of imaginary bulky people shouldn't be any great issue or surprise.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I stuck with simplicity: Bows basically have Finesse. They can use Str or Dex as the ability that contributes to attack and damage, as chosen by the user.
There is a pretty good argument for Str to contribute to hit with bows, that I didn't see the need to split things up further or make them more complex.

That lets the historical warbow-wielding characters, and the ones based off popular cartoon or comic characters to both operate in the rules effectively.

I interpreted dex to damage as targeting vital spots, hitting open spot, etc more effective shots vs more powerful ones - so dex to dmg is obvious to me for weapons where that kind of approach is taken.

Interesting. Which weapons do you see as not being used to target vital spots?

Once you discount skill and knowledge (proficiency bonus), speed of maneuver and force of strike (Strength), finding where Dex to both attack and damage fits can be tricky.
(Although the aspects of balance, reflexes and grace do fit with Dex-to-AC.)

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Would replacing dex to damage with expanding the crit range (say range equals 20 minus half your dex bonus [minimum zero]) work? (with some adjustment in case there are any dex-based champions out there).

You could make something like that work, but it would take a lot of effort, and is probably beyond the scope of this thread. The problem is that the ability bonus is practically equally to the damage die contribution, so you would have to expand the crit rate up to 100% before they line up (2d8 is very close to 1d8+5).

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Alternatively, keep DEX for Attack and Damage roll but gives bows a minimum STR to use. Maybe a shortbow (d6 damage) has minimum STR 12, longbow (d8) has STR 14 and a greatbow (d10) has STR 16?

After all, if you are not strong enough to draw a bow it doesn't matter how well you can shoot it.

This has the bonus of making crossbows more popular.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Real bows require strength to pull and fire. So how would it change D&D if we stopped allowing Dex for bows and mandated Str instead? Just keep Dex for finesse weapons.

Real bows require coordination and precision to aim, which is Dex.

But much more importantly, players expect archers to be dexterious. They expect elves to better archers than orcs.

So, the change would make the game line up less with expectations.

 

[Oofta]

Real bows require coordination and precision to aim, which is Dex.

But much more importantly, players expect archers to be dexterious. They expect elves to better archers than orcs.

So, the change would make the game line up less with expectations.

Real bows also require a fair amount of strength if it's going to be used for hunting or as a weapon.

As far as fantasy elves, of course they're stronger than they look. Everybody knows elves are just humans with pointy ears that are better in every way.

Not that it really matters that much, I've just effectively made bows versatile as others have said even though I do sometimes consider implementing alternate rules.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

armor counts as damage reduction only vs blunt weapons and very heavy weapons, and not

I.E.
1d6 bow, min str 8
1d8 bow, min str 10
1d10 bow, min str 14
1d12 bow, min str 18
2d6 bow, min str 20

without min str met, you have disadvantage on attack and deal minimum damage.

You know, back to this. It would be neat to apply this to most weapons. It's hard to wield a Greatsword if you're not strong enough to lift it. But I think that's a totally different thread.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Real bows also require a fair amount of strength if it's going to be used for hunting or as a weapon.

As far as fantasy elves, of course they're stronger than they look. Everybody knows elves are just humans with pointy ears that are better in every way.

Not that it really matters that much, I've just effectively made bows versatile as others have said even though I do sometimes consider implementing alternate rules.

Using most weapons requires both stats IRL. IMO the most realistic way would be to add Str do damage, and have various Str requirements to wield many of them, and always use Dex for attack.

And then have class give a +2 to a stat relevant to the class, like in 13th Age.

But for 5e, versatile works

I’d also be fine with a bows having min Str requirements, as long as the sortbow is 10 (average person, not weak), longbow 12 (stronger than most people, but not to a degree that ppl will think of them as buff), and bring in a great bow with Str 14-15 requirement to use.

 

[Oofta]

You know, back to this. It would be neat to apply this to most weapons. It's hard to wield a Greatsword if you're not strong enough to lift it. But I think that's a totally different thread.

What most people would consider a greatsword probably weighed around 6 pounds, so if you can't lift that you'd probably have a hard time getting out of bed.

But we do effectively have this because you add your strength mod to attack and damage.