OSR How Would You Convert WHFRPG to OSR?

[TBeholder]

I would convert OSR to d100, rather than the other way around. Because d100 may be unwieldy, but better unwieldy than crude. If you want crude, simply use Warhammer rules. Or maybe Mordheim. After all, WHFRPG already is a conversion from that.

If you really want to convert into OSR, something that already works with background/training packages seems like a good start. So maybe look at Crawford's games — Stars Without Numbers (OE), Spears of Dawn, etc.

 

[Michael Linke]

Or maybe Mordheim. After all, WHFRPG already is a conversion from that.

Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play predates Mordheim by 13 years. It's not a conversion from Mordheim.

 

[TBeholder]

Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play predates Mordheim by 13 years. It's not a conversion from Mordheim.

I phrased it badly, yeah. Conversion from Warhammer. I mentioned Mordheim together with WHFB because it's just a compatible update/variant thereof. Skirmish scale and has some extra details, but there's no great increase in "simulation model resolution" like in RPGs compared to corresponding Wargames (WHFRPG vs. WHFB, D&D vs. Chainmail).
My point being, of course, that OSR reduces the simulation much closer to skirmish level than typical for RPG with expansions. And since there are materials at both sides, why not just start with that and add some extra details from RPG rather than start with more details and throw out most of them?

 

[TheSword]

In general, a "death spiral" is a situation where an initial setback in a battle makes losing more and more likely. Any system where being hit imposes a penalty on you has this characteristic, and makes landing the first blow extremely important.

I'm very familiar with 2nd edition of Warhammer frpg, having run several campaigns with it. I'm not as familiar with the 4th edition, but from my understanding of it, it has this feature because of the "momentum" design.

Say our hero is fighting a brigand, and they are both equally skilled with the blade. One attacks the other, the other tries to parry. In the old system, this could result in a battle with lots of misses and parries, because to land a hit, the hero has to make their weapon skill check to hit, and the brigand has to fail their parry.

In the new system, the "winner" gets momentum, so even a "miss" by the attacker (the parry was successful) is impactful because the person who parries now has a +10% momentum bonus. This is a good thing... but it sets up a death spiral. The very first blade exchange is very determinant on who will win.

So - let us say that it takes 3 hit to win this fight. On the first exchange, each person has a 50% chance of winning, because their skill level is equal. I'm going to ignore ties because 1% chance and the math is easier. Let us say that the brigand wins the exchange and now has 10% momentum. The brigand now has 59.5% chance of wining the next exchange (and land a hit). If they land a hit, not only did they inflict damage on the hero, they gained more momentum!

The hero attacks again, but the brigand now has 69.5% chance of winning the exchange. The brigand parries. No damage, but they have more momentum. Their attack now has 79.5% chance of landing!

Now, of course at any moment this sequence can be interrupted. But the odds are not in the favor of the person on the loosing side, at all, even though they are an equal match to their opponent!

I think the reason this isn’t the case in practice is because choice can interrupt this cycle. Ranged damage, a spell, a successful test other than combat, outnumbering, disengaging from combat etc.

Secondly with two d100 rolls being compared it’s possible for one person to roll a 1 and the other to roll 100. That is a huge swing. Even if there is an increase in momentum for one roll, the chance of this continuing without any break for several rounds is less likely.

Even if this doesn’t work for your table, there several optional rules posted to cap advantage.

In reality Advantage adds a tactical element to combat that wasn’t there before.

 

[chuckdee]

If it were "simple," they would try it. Zweihander is a 600+ page rulebook, and from the reviews I've read (and my own impressions after reading it myself) it's considered over-written and needlessly fiddly. I can't expect players to read and study a 600+ page rulebook. That's larger than most college textbooks.
Like if it were just d100 like Call of Cthulhu, that would be fine. It's all these added noodly bits with charts, unusual subsystems, tracking a multitude of conditions, pages of redundant classes/occupations, pages of talents and feats, metacurrency, etc.
Then all that stuff needs to be put in a VTT.

The "How to Play" chapter is 10 pages. Character creation isn't that involved, and is about 50 more. There are descriptions after for the different classes, skills, etc. Combat is about 20 pages. It's not that much more involved than WFRP IMO. But perhaps, with that caveat lifted, you might look at some of the others in this thread to see if they are simple- I just thought from your OP that they were unwilling to try any other systems.