D&D 5E How Would You Run This? (Multiple Saves)

[Lanefan]

A question for DMs. Say you're running a published adventure, and it contains a situation something like this: the PCs are crossing a precarious rope bridge across a chasm, and something or other shakes it, trying to make them fall off. The adventure text says that each PC has to make a DC 10 dexterity save or fall off the bridge into the chasm. Some of your PCs make the save, and some don't.

"Bob," you say, "you fall off the rope bridge and plunge into the chasm."

One of the other players then says, "My character was right next to Bob on the bridge. I reach out and try to grab him."

If this happened at your table, would you allow the additional save, and either way, what would be your reasoning?

I wouldn't do it as a second save for Bob. Instead I'd start with giving the grabbing character (let's call her Mary) the equivalent of a to-hit roll to grab Bob, followed by a save (or a strength check?) for Mary to not be pulled off the bridge by the extra weight. Succeed on both of those and Bob's OK. Fail the first one, Bob's done. Fail the second one, they're both done.

 

[Oofta]

I'd probably do a reaction to grab and the a check on the side of the person grabbing or simply give the person that failed a second roll.

But then again, I do these things for dramatic effect and setbacks not "how can I kill off the PC with the low dexterity". It would never be a plummet to their death and I would try to avoid taking them out of combat altogether. I want the bad result to affect them negatively in a fun and challenging way, not end their story.

 

[DEFCON 1]

In cases like this where someone fails a DEX save to keep from falling great heights... if someone else is adjacent I usually then allow one/two more rolls to stop them from falling. The adjacent person would make a STR (Athletics) check to try and grab the falling individual and depending on that result, the person getting grabbed might need to make a third check if the Athletics check was a mediocre success/failure.

While not a "skill challenge" per se... usually these sort of athletic endeavors that can result in grave danger and possible death I treat as multiple check pseudo skill challenges because they deserve more heft in my opinion than just a single pass/fail roll. If we give combat multiple rounds and checks to see if someone dies by the sword... I feel like falling to your death deserves the same sort of mechanical support.

 

[Shiroiken]

If someone wanted to spend their reaction to help a falling character, I'd allow them to make a Strength save at the same DC in order to allow the falling character to reroll against the same DC. However, I'd make it clear to the helping player that if either roll fails, they fall too.

 

[NotAYakk]

Mary (the other player) can risk her own safety to try to save Bob.

I'd make the stakes clear -- "You are risking falling yourself" -- then ask for one or more checks.

I like the "one roll to successfully grab" then "one roll to not be pulled off the bridge yourself".

---

So part of the point of RPGs is telling a story. How can we maximize the story for minimal mechanics here?

Present dilemmas. Like:

Ok, when you grab, are you going to risk yourself?

No: roll with disadvantage. (when you tell the PC this, they may change their mind. Let them. Encourage heroics!)

Yes: Make a check. If you fail, say "they are out of your reach and you are teetering on the edge. Do you hook your foot on the bridge and dive for them, or try to save yourself?" (instead of "roll with advantage", we ... tell more story!)

Hook your Foot: Try again. On success, you are both saved. (here we have a cinematic moment, where the PC caused it to happen, with real consequences if they didn't.)
Save Yourself: Try again, with advantage. On success, you alone are saved. (flinching from risk. Will Mary hate herself?)

On failure, you both fall.

You got a hold of her. See if you are pulled off. Are you going to risk yourself to hold on?

No: Check with disadvantage, on failure you let go and Bob falls (if you don't give it your all, sometimes you could have done more)
Yes: Check, on failure you are pulled off bridge as well. (make it clear there will be no second rolls here, especially if you gave one before)

On success, you save Bob.

The point of this is to offer clear stakes, and give a PC the chance to sacrifice herself (or risk it) to save another. Even if the result is "nothing happened, nobody fell", a story was created, where the "Mary" PC made choices, and the "Bob" PC witnessed Mary risking herself for him. Or the "Mary half-heartedly tried to save Bob", or "Mary risked herself, then flinched". All are great stories. (And what will Bob feel if he survives?)

You'll note I placed multiple spots where Mary can choose to play it safe, and I didn't punish heroics. Playing it safe is far less likely to succeed in every case.

 

[jayoungr]

Thanks for all the responses. Couple of things...

1. The second save I asked for last night was made by the player who wanted to catch "Bob," not by Bob. I definitely worded that confusingly, so I've gone back and edited the OP. Just wanted to clear that up.

2. The fall in last night's game would not have been a death sentence. It was most likely to be about half the PC's HP.

3. The rope bridge scenario was just a hypothetical example. The actual thing that happened last night was that the players entered the Heart of Sorrow from the third floor in Castle Ravenloft--a living tower that tries to shake the PCs off its stairs. The PCs had no way of knowing before they entered the tower that this would happen, so they had no reason to tie themselves together or anything like that.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

...The PCs had no way of knowing before they entered the tower that this would happen, so they had no reason to tie themselves together or anything like that.

Perhaps this could be remedied with one slight alteration to the p59 box text as a subtle telegraph to the party when the PCs first step into the tower. Something like:
"At the pinnacle of the hollow tower, a large crystal heart pulsates with red light seemingly pumping life essence into the tower itself."

We're about to run a West Marches reboot of CoS with two DMs... thanks for bringing up this scenario as it will help in our planning!

 

[jayoungr]

If falling and taking damage is the consequence for failure on that save, the consequence should be part of the narrated result. By narrating "you fall off the rope bridge and plunge into the chasm” and waiting for your players to respond rather than saying, “ "you fall off the rope bridge and plunge into the chasm, taking (roll result) damage from the fall,” you have implicitly invited the players to respond with new actions, so of course one or more players would suggest trying to save Bob from falling by catching him.

I see what you mean, but I don't think narrating the damage would help with this particular group. They have a lot of ways to retroactively stop damage: the rune knight uses a rune, or the lore bard uses cutting words, etc.--to the point where I don't even bother to tell them to take damage from attacks if the hit is close, because I know it's about to be undone.

 

[Charlaquin]

I see what you mean, but I don't think narrating the damage would help with this particular group. They have a lot of ways to retroactively stop damage: the rune knight uses a rune, or the lore bard uses cutting words, etc.--to the point where I don't even bother to tell them to take damage from attacks if the hit is close, because I know it's about to be undone.

Both of those abilities affect attacks, not fall damage.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

One character falling and another catching them is what would happen in a film and sounds like a reasonable thing to attempt. The players are engaging with the fictional positioning and not just the plain mechanics, which this is good. Now this 'extra save' should probably come with some sort of a risk, unless an appropriate spell, special feature or something particularly clever was used. I'd probably allow the character attempting to catch the falling person to roll athletics, and make it clear that if they fail the roll badly enough they will fall themselves.