Hydras and Lightning

[klofft]

The party fought their first hydra last night. Couple questions came up as a result:

1) A hydra is Huge. Therefore, when trying to Sunder its heads, does that mean the beast gets a +8 (2 size categories larger) against Medium opponents? That's the way we played it, but that seems to make hydras really, really hard to fight. Ultimately, the spellcasters just unloaded high-powered blasting spells on its body to overwhelm its fast healing in order to kill it.

2) While the half-dragon monk pinned the hydra (yeah, he managed to pull that off), one of the spellcasters launched a lightning bolt against the hydra's flank (as it is a 15' area critter). The monk was not in the line of the bolt, but was grappling the creature. Should the monk have been damaged by the bolt?

Thanks!
C

 

[javcs]

If the monk wasn't in the line of the bolt, there's no reason for him to have been damaged by it, so, no, he shouldn't be damaged by the bolt.

As for number one, it seems like that, as written, the hydra getting a bonus is correct. Though, I don't think that it would be particularly unbalancing as a houserule to negate that bonus, since you still have to take down all of the heads and seal the necks. And, you would still need to get around the fast healing to detach the heads.

 

[Hypersmurf]

2) While the half-dragon monk pinned the hydra (yeah, he managed to pull that off), one of the spellcasters launched a lightning bolt against the hydra's flank (as it is a 15' area critter). The monk was not in the line of the bolt, but was grappling the creature. Should the monk have been damaged by the bolt?

What size was the monk, and who initiated the Grapple?

Step 3: Hold. Make an opposed grapple check as a free action. If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike.

If you lose, you fail to start the grapple. You automatically lose an attempt to hold if the target is two or more size categories larger than you are.

Apart from that, it's not really clear exactly how grappling between creatures with mismatched spaces works. For example, if a Medium monk were mounted on the Huge hydra, he would be considered to occupy all nine of the hydra's squares... so he would be subject to any lightning bolt that struck the hydra. If the same consideration is extended to grappling, the monk would have been affected by the lightning bolt. If it isn't, then the monk's position within the hydra's space must be tracked.

1) A hydra is Huge. Therefore, when trying to Sunder its heads, does that mean the beast gets a +8 (2 size categories larger) against Medium opponents?

Yes, although given that the hydra is probably opposing with its bite attack roll, and given that natural weapons are always considered light weapons, a case could be made that the hydra should also take a -4 penalty, so the nett bonus is only +4...

-Hyp.

 

[klofft]

What size was the monk, and who initiated the Grapple?

Step 3: Hold. Make an opposed grapple check as a free action. If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike.

If you lose, you fail to start the grapple. You automatically lose an attempt to hold if the target is two or more size categories larger than you are.

Apart from that, it's not really clear exactly how grappling between creatures with mismatched spaces works. For example, if a Medium monk were mounted on the Huge hydra, he would be considered to occupy all nine of the hydra's squares... so he would be subject to any lightning bolt that struck the hydra. If the same consideration is extended to grappling, the monk would have been affected by the lightning bolt. If it isn't, then the monk's position within the hydra's space must be tracked.
-Hyp.

Crap. I forgot this little qualifier. The monk was only Medium-size. I hate adjudicating rules wrong! Oh well. My mistake is the players' gain.

As for the other part, we knew what square the monk entered the (erroneous) grapple with the hydra, and the lightning bolt didn't travel through it, so I'm content with it not hitting him. (Of course, it doesn't really matter, as this situation won't happen again.)

Thanks.
C

 

[Infiniti2000]

I hate adjudicating rules wrong! Oh well. My mistake is the players' gain.

That's better than against the player. It's far easier for you to create another hydra.

 

[frankthedm]

The party fought their first hydra last night. Couple questions came up as a result:

1) A hydra is Huge. Therefore, when trying to Sunder its heads, does that mean the beast gets a +8 (2 size categories larger) against Medium opponents?

A little bit of common sense would say the heads themselves are a bit smaller than the body and out to be treated as such. I would be to treat the heads as light weapons since that is how natural attacks are normally treated.

2) While the half-dragon monk pinned the hydra (yeah, he managed to pull that off), one of the spellcasters launched a lightning bolt against the hydra's flank (as it is a 15' area critter). The monk was not in the line of the bolt, but was grappling the creature. Should the monk have been damaged by the bolt?

A little bit of common sense would also say the monk should have been fried by the bolt. Clinging onto something being electrocuted is a bad situation.

 

[klofft]

A little bit of common sense would say the heads themselves are a bit smaller than the body and out to be treated as such. I would be to treat the heads as light weapons since that is how natural attacks are normally treated.

A little bit of common sense would also say the monk should have been fried by the bolt. Clinging onto something being electrocuted is a bad situation.

Of course, it's irrelevant, as the monk shouldn't have been able to grapple the hydra. Aside from that, I'd agree it would be commonsense. However, ironically, on a thread on collateral damage, I proposed that launching a fireball in the middle of the woods should cause plenty of collateral damage to the environment, and most respondants there thought that was unnecessary, largely because it was unfun. I submit that the monk taking lightning bolt damage also would have qualified as "unfun."

 

[shilsen]

A little bit of common sense would also say the monk should have been fried by the bolt. Clinging onto something being electrocuted is a bad situation.

A little bit of common sense would also say that electricity created by a spell is very different from real-world electricity.

A little more common sense also says that common sense isn't all that common, and often not that sensible.

 

[Nail]

I submit that the monk taking lightning bolt damage also would have qualified as "unfun."

Especially to the monk's player.

Would he get evasion, though?

 

[javcs]

Especially to the monk's player.

Would he get evasion, though?

He'd've been in a grapple . . .