Hypnotism effects

[0-hr]

From the SRD:

Hypnotism...

If the character uses this spell in combat, the targets gain a
+2 bonus to their saving throws. If the spell affects only a
single creature not in combat at the time, the saving throw has a
penalty of -2. While hypnotized, a creatures Spot and
Listen checks suffer a -4 penalty. Any potential threat
(such as an armed party member moving behind the hypnotized
creature) allows the creature a second saving throw. Any obvious
threat, such as casting a spell, drawing a sword, or aiming an
arrow, automatically breaks the hypnotism, as does shaking or
slapping the creature. A hypnotized creatures ally may
shake it free of the spell as a standard action.

Allip...

Babble (Su): An allip constantly mutters and whines to itself,
creating a hypnotic effect. All sane creatures within 60 feet of
the allip must succeed at a Will save (DC 16) or be affected as
though by a hypnotism spell for 2d4 rounds. This is a sonic,
mind-affecting compulsion. Opponents who successfully save cannot
be affected by the same allips babble for one day.

I am making an encounter where 4 Allip come babbling out of the shadows and attack the party. Assume that they get surprise and babble (standard action). I'm unlcear as to how things proceed. Here's my guess at a couple of different options:

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OPTION ONE:

- Surprise round. Allips babble and every party member needs to make 4 Will(16) saves or be hypnotizes for 2-4 rounds (durations overlap rather than stack). No-one gets the +2 for being "in-combat" since the fight hasn't really started yet.

- Initiative is rolled and the first full round starts. The Allip move forward to attack the active party members. For the hypnotized folks, this is a "potential threat" and so they get another save. Even though they are now in combat, they do not get the +2 on the save because the spell was not cast in combat.

- The Allips finish off the active party member(s) and move to the first of the hypnotized folks. As soon as they declare who they are attacking, that person snaps out of it because this is an "obvious threat" to them. Everyone else remains in a trance and the Allips periodically renew the duration with new babbling.

- Eventually everyone is at zero wisdom and the fight ends.
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OPTION TWO:

- Surprise round. Allips babble and every party member needs to make 4 Will(16) saves just like for option one.

- Initiative is rolled and the first full round starts. As soon as the Allips move forward in a hostile manner (to attack anyone at all), everyone snaps out of the trance because this is an "obvious threat" to them. Clearly the allips plan to kill everyone, even if they are going to do it one person at a time.

- The fight proceeds as normal with all party members active.
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So I guess my main question is this: "Does a bad guy attacking your friend count as an obvious threat to you if it is obvious that you are next on his list? Or is that just a potential threat?"

 

[mikebr99]

I would think that Babble would be a free action in this case.

Babble (Su): An allip constantly mutters and whines to itself, creating a hypnotic effect.

But that doesn't really answer your question does it???

 

[Stalker0]

One aspect of this scenario I'm curious about is when is a creature considered in combat? Is it once its initiative goes, or once its being threatened.

I'm asking, because bard's fascinate ability doesn't work in combat. But say I stumble upon a monster. I win initiative, and use fascinate. Is the monster in combat yet, and therefore immune, or still vulnerable sense no combat has actually started?