D&D General I am so done with kickstarter

LOL I just turned 53
side point... does anyone know the age range of teh average poster here... I put I was in my 40s in a post expecting I was on the older grognard side, and someone else said 50s... is this board all older players (not really old, I mean that's like late 70s into 80's.... although at 16 I thought 30's was old...oh no)
 

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jgsugden

Legend
In the end, Kickstarter is a seller offering to provide you with product (or services) in exchange for cash. If they blow it and can't perform under their offer, you can't do much to force their hand.

To encourage you to buy from them they often include 'exclusives' that can only be purchased there. FOMO results in people backing projects that they know in their hearts will never be fully utilized by them. They'll pay $500 for a board game where they'll only use 10% of the things included, if they're lucky.

If you want to do Kickstarter backing - I recommend you really focus on whether you'll get your money out of the situation - and consider putting a limit on how much you'll back before you get your value out of what you've already backed.
 

side point... does anyone know the age range of teh average poster here... I put I was in my 40s in a post expecting I was on the older grognard side, and someone else said 50s... is this board all older players (not really old, I mean that's like late 70s into 80's.... although at 16 I thought 30's was old...oh no)

Morrus has shared numbers for overall ENWorld visitor, but I don't think it was possible to slice that up by general user vs. poster.

I do think those of us who post tend to skew above 40, in general (based on past mentions in different threads) but I could be totally wrong. Younger TTRPG posters seem to gravitate more toward Reddit and Twitter.
 


I have not looked at the PDF. Waiting on the print copy. But I do have faith there is good stuff in there.

There probably is, but it’s written in the 80’s style of pages (and pages….and pages) of long-form prose explaining all the background and history and factions. I’m sure some people still prefer that, but my eyes glaze over.

I probably should have expected that, given the “old school” emphasis. Maybe 7 or 8 years ago when I backed it I wasn’t so burned out on that sort of thing.
 


Morrus has shared numbers for overall ENWorld visitor, but I don't think it was possible to slice that up by general user vs. poster.

I do think those of us who post tend to skew above 40, in general (based on past mentions in different threads) but I could be totally wrong. Younger TTRPG posters seem to gravitate more toward Reddit and Twitter.
interesting okay I alwasy just assumed I was talking to a bunch of 'kids' in there teens and twenties with a few in thirties and my age and older were rare... I guess I am about the average age then.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Morrus has shared numbers for overall ENWorld visitor, but I don't think it was possible to slice that up by general user vs. poster.

I do think those of us who post tend to skew above 40, in general (based on past mentions in different threads) but I could be totally wrong. Younger TTRPG posters seem to gravitate more toward Reddit and Twitter.
We've had polls taken on the forum, the forum seems to skew older than the site visitors. I think the median poll voter was in the early-mid 40s.
 



beta-ray

Adventurer
I've backed 14 Kickstarter projects I think. Of those, only three have not arrived because they are still in progress (as they estimated). I only got upset with one because they changed formats on me.

I like both Kickstarter and Amazon (though I won't do nfts or pay via crypto). I think it is probably due to the current climate (paper harder to get ahold of, etc), but many of my Amazon pre-orders are delayed by a lot. Also, living in Hawaii, I never get it the next day.
 

nedjer

Adventurer
There probably is, but it’s written in the 80’s style of pages (and pages….and pages) of long-form prose explaining all the background and history and factions. I’m sure some people still prefer that, but my eyes glaze over.

I probably should have expected that, given the “old school” emphasis. Maybe 7 or 8 years ago when I backed it I wasn’t so burned out on that sort of thing.
I bought Invincible Overlord at the same time as I bought Vault of the Drow. One was old Old School with rooms including descriptions such as 3 copper pieces, while the other was Old School turned into an out-of-control riot with everyone eventually getting spider wrapped and sooked dry. I, therefore, contend that Old School can and does still rock :)
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I'm cool with Kickstarter more than Amazon. I just wish more creators would have a bigger gap between releasing PDFs and printing physical books. Give the hundreds or thousands more people a chance to put eyes on the text and spot mistakes so they can be fixed before going to print. Even books with professional editors need as many eyes as possible. I recently backed a project, got the PDF, and in the first dozen pages spotted about a dozen mistakes. But...the text was already finalized because they'd hired a professional editor and the few passes they did was considered enough. Nope. Still mistakes galore. Inconsistency of word usage, art covering text, simple spelling and grammar mistakes...on and on. It's really disheartening. I was really looking forward to the book. Now I think it was a waste of money. I won't be able to read the physical book I ordered without cringing. Maybe that's the curse of having been an editor.

Yeah, I tend to be forgiving. I've been on the side of fence where even with a professional copy writer and multiple people reading over a document, I've had small errors make it through. But I do think that Kickstarter generates pressure to rush products to production. Many of the backers are very unforgiving of delays and many creators don't plan enough budget and time for a proper copy edit and proofreading process.

What most annoys me with TTRPG material is when there are cross-references that are not updated (or the referenced content just isn't in the book), maps that are mislabeled or the keyed areas between maps don't match up, or where the descriptive text isn't represented on the map (because they changed the text without changing the map or changed the map without updating the text). Statblock errors are another area where poor editing greatly affects the use of the product.

Poor editing is common enough in TTRPG material that I've learned to live with it, but when I see it done well (shout out to Kobold Press here), it makes me far more loyal and likely to continue purchasing from the publisher.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I guess the important thing there is to determine that the base offering is worth the money in the first place.
I understand that sentiment and have certainly made that calculation on some projects that I backed. But the real joy in backing the right project for me is helping get a product created that might not have otherwise gone forward. There are Kickstarters I've backed where not long after the project was fulfilled, you buy the product for less through traditional outlets. As long as not promises were made about this and no dishonest marketing was involved, this didn't bother me at all. But rage I see in the comments section of projects where this happens makes it very clear that not everyone feels this way.

I also enjoy living vicariously through the creators. Here I think many backers are similar. I find when a creator--especially for a risky and longer-term project--shares regular updates, good and bad, backers are far more forgiving of delays. COVID-related printing delays made this difficult--how much more can you say other than "we are still waiting." But I've seen some creators that will give updates where in edition to the bad news (we are still waiting, we've contracted the printer, blah blah), they write up some interesting product-related tidbits.

Actually, the one thing that I am a sucker for are Kickstarter exclusive editions. For example a board game with a different box, or certain pieces or cards, that only Kickstarter backer get. Not a delay-risking stretch goal. Just some small exclusive change. Its nerd-collector catnip. The other thing that gets me are putting backers names in the acknowledgements or getting a signed copy. Not practical with projects with very large numbers of backers, but I've backed at a higher tier for signed copies or being listed in the acknowledgement section.
 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
Data protection stuff. Plus you lose access to the backer report after a while. Can't recall how long offhand. A year, maybe two?

View attachment 156929
Does that last clause not allow you to hold onto the file while any backers have unclaimed rewards?

Or is it more a logistical issue that if some of them have just purchased PDF versions, it'd be too much of a pain to confirm whether/when they've all downloaded a copy?
 






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