D&D General I am so done with kickstarter

plisnithus8

Explorer
The most frustrating thing I have found, except for being outright scammed, is that I have found a few items I have Kickstartered and awaiting deliver timetables yet the same exact item was currently available on Amazon for cheaper and with next day delivery.
 

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Reynard

Legend
The most frustrating thing I have found, except for being outright scammed, is that I have found a few items I have Kickstartered and awaiting deliver timetables yet the same exact item was currently available on Amazon for cheaper and with next day delivery.
I don't back enough KS to know, but is this common? I know it feels strange to back, say, Bladerunner, knowing that book is going to 100% be available in stores.
 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
The best part of being a GenXer is that when I was young and stupid, we did not have portable film studios in our pockets to document it, and did not have massive social networks over which to share it.
The only downside is having few photographs of myself when I was young and beautiful! :LOL:
 



Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
The most frustrating thing I have found, except for being outright scammed, is that I have found a few items I have Kickstartered and awaiting deliver timetables yet the same exact item was currently available on Amazon for cheaper and with next day delivery.
I’ve never once had that happen, and this is the first I’ve ever even heard of it happening. I’d love to see some documentation on that.
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
As a definitively small-press indie RPG designer I find kickstarter invaluable - I use it when the game is ready, but want to raise money for editing and art. To date I’ve hit three out of three delivery targets and I’m pleased with that. It can be tricky when a third party you are expecting to do work for you suddenly bails - I’ve only had that once, for one out of four artists (it’s as if the dropped off the face of the earth). Luckily I was able to come up with a plan B which was good enough. Finding reliable people who you can trust to schedule the work you commission from them is really important.

I hope that it continues to be a viable avenue for small-press designers to get their games out there for many years to come.
 

The younglings hate Amazon. But I love Amazon. Because whatever I order, it arrives tomorrow.

Kickstarter seemed like a cool way to support creators.

But it doesn't seem cool any more, with their cash grab towards blockchain so the world can be destroyed faster by climate change.

But what really bothers me, is how long you have to wait for kickstarter products to arrive.

It is almost a year ago when I backed Dungeons of Drakkenheim, still no sign, no idea if it will even come this year.

I have no interest in it now.

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The attraction of Crowdfunding is that developers aren't beholden to investors; only to people who're actually buying the product they want to make. And the fact that it also serves as its own marketing; if nobody wants to back your project then you don't have to waste your time actually creating a product that isn't going to sell. You just need to come in with a pitch and then ask people to pay you to do the work.

Some companies, especially ones who're new to KickStarter, over promise; especially when it comes to stretch goals. They often don't really taking into account how much the extras will cost in the hopes of that extra cash grab, or the amount of time they could add to their estimates. (Stretch goals will only get the backer so far for promoting a product anyway, since not all of them will even be applicable to the reward tier you've gone for, so it may not be the incentive).

In the case of less experienced companies you can usually add 50% to the estimated delivery date.

I don't know if this is the case with the project you backed (I don't particularly like the 'dungeon dudes' so I wasn't really interested their project) but don't forget; there's been a global health crisis that has delayed work on most projects, not to mention the fact that international shipping companies are still dealing with the back up from when the Suez Canel was blocked by the Evergreen.

Even the more experienced companies have had huge delays on their projects.

People hate Amazon because they pay people slave wages to work in terrible conditions while bending over backwards for your next day delivery, and because these shady practices are running smaller businesses who treat their staff more fairly out of the game.
You hate kickstarter for accepting of a form of currency you don't even have to use (and seems to be at the end of its lifespan anyway) and because of delays nobody could have predicted in creating a product from scratch, writing, proofing, editing it, illustrating, printing, delivering (internationally), and trying to do this with a budget they may not be able to increase from their original campaign without giving up something in return to an investor or some such.
 


Smackpixi

Adventurer
There’s pretty much no reason to back any Kickstarter for PDFs unless you backing it will be the difference to it getting funded and made. Nearly all of them become available for cheaper shortly after the PDFs are delivered to backers.

Print from large publishers also usually similarly pointless. What is a good back is for print from small publishers where the Kickstarter run is offset printed and better than the POD you can get later or where print will never be available again.

Giving more money to a publisher than you really need to is fine if you like them, but if you watch these things, you start to see that kickstarters are a bad bargain most times.
 

Print from large publishers also usually similarly pointless. What is a good back is for print from small publishers where the Kickstarter run is offset printed and better than the POD you can get later or where print will never be available again.
From where I live, backing a print kickstarter from someone like Kobold Press is actually the better financial option, because shipping to Australia via KS fulfilment houses is often around a third of what it costs to ship direct from KP, or to buy from a local game shop once they've factored shipping into their retail cost.

The downside is, at least in the covid era, sometimes you can have veeeeeery slow fulfilment. My KS copy of Southlands 5e took 5 months to ship, by which time some international bookshops already had it on sale at 50% off, and Tome of Heroes looks to be taking the same trajectory. At least, Kobold Press's shipping has been very slow, it isn't universally the case for all publishers. Privateer Press has been very efficient, and a couple of projects I've backed that have fulfilled via DTRPG PoD vouchers have been very quick and trouble-free too.
 

Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
Honestly I don't really care if I'm getting a better deal or getting it sooner or whatever. I just think Kickstarter is a fun way to shop for RPGs.
 

Honestly I don't really care if I'm getting a better deal or getting it sooner or whatever. I just think Kickstarter is a fun way to shop for RPGs.
That's true. It's often the ONLY way to shop for really small-run stuff, at least until it goes up on DTRPG or something. So much of the new RPG material released these days never hits the shelf of a hobby shop, especially outside the USA.
 

Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
I’ve never once had that happen, and this is the first I’ve ever even heard of it happening. I’d love to see some documentation on that.
I kick-started the boardgame Fief on May 21, 2019. In February 2021 it delivered to European backers. In May 2021 it was available from US retailers. US backers are still waiting on their copies.

FIEF: The Lords Miniatures! KS Exclusive!, via @Kickstarter FIEF: The Lords Miniatures! KS Exclusive!
 

Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
That's true. It's often the ONLY way to shop for really small-run stuff, at least until it goes up on DTRPG or something. So much of the new RPG material released these days never hits the shelf of a hobby shop, especially outside the USA.

And even if something is on DTRPG, that UX is just not as much fun as Kickstarter. It's like Amazon with a 1996 aesthetic.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Honestly I don't really care if I'm getting a better deal or getting it sooner or whatever. I just think Kickstarter is a fun way to shop for RPGs.
Yep. I don't know if it is a good thing, but I am more likely to learn about a new TTRPG product I'm interested in from Kickstarter than from traditional sources. There is really only two places I learn about new products: ENWorld and Kickstarter and a lot of new products are learn about on ENWorld are the RPG Crowdfunding news posts by @Egg Embry and from the Morrus’ Unofficial Tabletop RPG Talk! podcast. I have no idea whether I'm typical, but Kickstarter is an effective way to get my eyes on a product.

I especially find useful how Kickstarter will show what folks you've backed are backing. When you find a group of creators whose work you enjoy, you also get access to a network. I've found a lot products and creators simply because someone I backed whose work I liked backed someone else.

I know Amazon has similar functionality, but about the only TTRPG stuff I buy on Amazon are WotC books on preorder. About the only recommendations I'm getting are for other WotC books.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
And even if something is on DTRPG, that UX is just not as much fun as Kickstarter. It's like Amazon with a 1996 aesthetic.
Very true, but if I am looking for something very specific, there is no better place to find it than on One Bookshelf (DTRPG & DMs Guild). If I want some GM aids to help run or spruce up a published adventure, or am looking for a specific set piece for a homebrew campaign, I can easily filter on system, product type, etc. and usually find something interesting or helpful.

I also like the app they have for synchronizing your one bookshelf library to your computer.

It may not be pretty, but it is reliable and useful.
 



jgsugden

Legend
Here is my record of Kickstarter failures/challenges:

HEX MMO Trading Card Game - Digitial M:tG from Cryptozoic that took advantage of being digital to do things you can't do with physical cards. I was able to play about 400 hours of it, but they never delivered most of what was promised. They stopped supporting it a few years ago, meaning my entire investmet is gone except for the pleasure of opening packs and playing a lot of early sealed deck. I'd have been better off buying M:tG cards.

Map Flats - Vinyl tabletop RPG Maps - They promosed double sided high quality Vinyl Maps. In the end, I received single sided maps and the quality was mediocre. I still use them, but far from what was promised.

KINGDOM BUILDER - I backed for Harvest and Marshlands. Queen Games lied, and then put the games on shelves before delivering to backers. When they delivered, they gave many backers things they did not pay for, making those that paid for those things frustrated that they were charged for something Queen gave to others (which is a bit petty of a complaint, but still left a lot of people with a bad taste in their mouth). They clearly think their customers are unimportant and dumb based upon how they treat the customers. I like their games from a design perspective, but I won't buy from them on KS, or in stores, again. Only in the secondary market (as a used game). They were horrible.

Modular Underground Project - 3D Dungeon Wargame Terrain - Also known as Oblivion, this project was a real cluster but they're slowly trying to make it right. Slowly. This plastic RPG terrain was to be delivered in October 2017 and many people have yet to see anything delivered, while others, like myself have seen piecemeal delivery. At this point, all I really need are some Wooden Floors to be delivered as there are a lot of pieces I have that are supposed to attach to those Wooden Floors. The company has posted a lot of statements about how they'll make this right only to fail to deliver on those promises time and again ... and then surprisingly take a positive step to deliver on some part of the promises out of the blue. The method of 'keeping hope alive but never quite delivering fully' has been kind of like 5 years of nails on a chalkboard.

DEEP MADNESS / Dawn of Madness - Incredibly slow in delivery. I've backed a few of the projects they've made, but they have all been ridiculously slow to deliver.

Iconic Mythical Collection RPG Dice Sets by Kraken Dice - This company advertised crisp and clear transparent dice with cool designs in the center. What was delivered looked cloudy and worse than the dice in the $0.25 bin at the FLGS. Clear lies and misrepresentation and a company I will never trust again.

Blacklist Miniatures: Fantasy Series 1 - These were cheap plastic miniatures that cover a spectrum of traditional D&D monsters. I told a lot of my friends about them and recommended they back to get a great 'starter set' of unpainted minis for their young kids. They delivered internationally last year, about a year late, but domestic delivered have been help up in a warehouse here in the US since December. The reasons are a little unclear, but appear to be that they don't have the money to pay to have them delivered, and are getting in deeper water due to storage costs. The worse part is that the company has lied to backers over and over and over and over and over throughout the campaign. I am also a backer for their second KS of Fantasy Miniatures that were supposed to be delivered this month originally, but last report claimed we'd get them in August. Given that the minis are here in the US, I do expect to get them ... but the wait has been ridiculous.

Stairslide: Indoor Slide For Stairs - These recklessly fun slides that go on your indoor stairs ticked me off by changing their specifications after we backed, changing the number of slides you'd need to cover a given distance of stairs. Still, my kids love the things and nobody has lost a finger, yet.

Various CMON - They have done nothing wrong, per se, even delivering early on some pledges, but they have released an insane amount of stuff and the prices are skyrocketing. I backed them for Blood Rage, Rising Sun, Ankh, Cthulhu: Death May Die, Hate, Rise of Moloch, Marvel United, Marvel United: X-Men, Zombidice: Undead or Alive and Marvel Zombies. The cost of their KS offerings have risen and risen and risen and risen ... to the point where they're manipulative. They use 'Fear of Missing Out' to get people to spend several hundred dollars (over $500 these days) on their KS offerings. I really hope they start to revisit some of their earlier models and release quality games at a much lower price point with fewer expansions.

There are dozens of other KS that have delivered late, but I consider that a normal risk so long as the delivery is not more than 100% late.
 

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