I hate monks

[Nyaricus]

This is complete and utter poppycock and has been debunked by science decades ago.

Well, i got that from my current Sociology textbook - so blame the school system man. If you wish, please back up your statement, as i have mine.

It should be noted that that is meant on a widespead basis - It wasn't common for the bloodlines to mix. It would have happened, though, obviously.

 

[ForceUser]

Well, i got that from my current Sociology textbook - so blame the school system man. If you wish, please back up your statement, as i have mine.

Here comes that damn apple, followed closely once again by Mr. Orange. Nyaricus--Sociology is a cultural science. Culturally, sure there are many groups that define themselves or are defined by others as a race, and thus to them, bloodlines matter. Biologically, though, there's no such thing. Get it?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

On the bio/cultural side...

There WERE many laws in Asian countries like China and Japan that made miscegenation a criminal offense- Westerners could not visit most sections of major towns. Some countries even had Occidental-only whorehouses.

However, humans are humans, and some people just love the exotic, especially if its forbidden. Even at the most xenophobic, you could find "mixed blood" persons living out their lives in the East or West. While it was often a harsh existence, some "half-breeds" were able to use their status and upbringing to their advantage.

The story was the same in other cultures where miscegenation was (at least technically) forbidden, like my native New Orleans. Despite the illegality of black/white sexual relations, placees & mulattoes held a LOT of power.

 

[ForceUser]

The story was the same in other cultures where miscegenation was (at least technically) forbidden, like my native New Orleans. Despite the illegality of black/white sexual relations, placees & mulattoes held a LOT of power.

Yup. Plessey vs. Ferguson was wrangled over whether a fella with 1/8th African blood could ride in the white car of a Louisiana train.

On a side note, I hope things are okay for you and yours down there, Danny. My entire clan lives in south Louisiana. My mom just sold her home in Baton Rouge to a Katrina, er, resettler, and bought a place in Denham Springs.

 

[Nyaricus]

Here comes that damn apple, followed closely once again by Mr. Orange. Nyaricus--Sociology is a cultural science. Culturally, sure there are many groups that define themselves or are defined by others as a race, and thus to them, bloodlines matter. Biologically, though, there's no such thing. Get it?

oops, my bad!

Makes complete sense though. Also, apologies to the mods, for I posted that before seeing a request to not use *ahem* real life examples and all.

Again, my bad

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Good news: My entire family escaped the wrath of Katrina...

Bad news: They moved to the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex where I live.

After 30+ years of being able to socialize with that bunch of nuts only when I wanted to, I'm now getting daily calls from them. Some even have housekeys...

I escaped the madhouse, only to have it rebuilt around me!

 

[Li Shenron]

Monastic orders were actually fairly common in Medieval Europe, both in real life and in literature. That said, I agree that the new Monk core class steps away from the European Monk core class of AD&D 1e and more towards the later Eastern Monk of Oriental Adventures - you don't see to many cloistered Franciscan brother deflecting arrows with their bare hands

You've said it yourself. It takes a huge effort to try and fit western medieval monks with the D&D monk Christian monks were at best expert in crafts and sometimes lore. Definitely not in combat, although there could have been cases of groups of monks well able to defend themselves. But the "development" of the body and its "powers" doesn't have anything to do with western monks (AFAIK!), which in a few cases actually practiced self-hurting of the body and professed that the body is a bad thing that should be punished.

 

[Li Shenron]

Read up on Savate, Pankration, Sambo, Boxing, and so on.

You think I've never heard of them? Well in the case of Sambo , you're right...

But...

Savate is from the 1800s, not exactly middle ages. Well, you can of course have such a thing in your D&D settings (it's not strictly forbidden to add something from AFTER the middle ages ), but it's also a street-fighting thing IIRC that sounds to me extremely far from cloistered people who meditate about the cosmos and gain supernatural abilities... A Rogue with Improved Unarmed Attack would fit a hundred times better.

Pankration is the greek wrestling I had in mind. In D&D it would be grappling, definitely not the Monk mechanic which is based on speed and mobility.

 

[Li Shenron]

You know what this thread is really about? Eurocentrism. It's obnoxious--so there's a small amount of genre-blending in the core rules. So what? It's not like a single swinging crank in this thread is running an historical Western Europe campaign. And it's not like the monk is the only non-Euro component of D&D--crack a Monster Manual sometime.

What makes you think that I wouldn't in fact skip some of the MM creatures for the same reason?

But then anyway, I didn't say I ban monks from I game. Just that I don't like that they are a core option, because it implies to support them in nearly every setting. I don't know how was that in 2ed, if monks orders were present in the original Forgotten Realms for example?

If, however, your dislike is rooted in some half-baked notion of what "belongs" in core D&D, you might want to think about from where that idea is originating. The answer probably has very little to do with the game and much more to do with your cultural bias.

My preference for a core based on certain base mythology is not worse than someone else's, and it not worse than having no base and wanting everything imaginable.

 

[Aaron L]

The Realms have had monks since the first grey box in 1E.

Its really baffling to me that many people cant imagine a euroflavored martial artist, or that having monks could ruin suspension of disbelief.

I find the idea that core D&D should be limited to european flavored medieval legends to be... odd, to say the least. Ive never been a fan of culturally themed stuff. It seems really silly to me that every world is going to have european/asian/native american/whatever analogues. I want unique non earth cultures, not england dressed up with funny monsters.

Additionally, do peoples games feature one worldwide eurocentric culture all the way around the globe?

My monks wear togas and gather in symposiums. Theyve learned to master thier ki/psionic/inner potential during intense introspective meditation while searching for the Truth.