I Have 8 20th Level Characters -- Now What?

[Aluvial]

I could really use some advice.

My campaign has been blissfully moving along with tons of adventure, daring-do, and role-play and my players seem genuinely happy with the game I've been presenting them. I've DMd in Greyhawk as my background setting (I stay fairly in line with the general canon) for over 16 years. Four years ago, my group switched over to the 3.0 rules, and then converted the same characters to 3.5 shortly after it was released. Overall, we enjoy the rules, some things get changed when I want to, and we proceed.

What has changed is the level of the characters. In 1st and 2nd edition characters could reach 20th level, but to do so in a legitimate way was the stuff of legend. I had a few characters hit 14th (maybe), but most stayed in the 6 to 11 range. Campaigns ended when characters hit name level or their racial maximums caught up with the bulk of them. Now I'm faced with 8 20th level characters and only a spark of an idea of how to end it. When I told the characters at level 18 that the end was in sight, that we'd all get a chance to play through 20th level, and then some might see 21 and 22, they seemed ok. I brought it up again last night, and the group seems hell bent against finishing and want to go Epic.

I having trouble crafting the encounters necessary to challenge these guys now. They have the best equipment (that I'll ever give out), they defeated a very tough encounter with a stronghold of orc barbarians the last session. They wiped out around 140 9th level barbarians and their strong group of leaders, it was as if they were un-checkable. The previous encounter had them square off against an Ancient Red Dragon. Although I made charcoal out of two of the characters on the first blast of fire, the rest of the group (in a fierce fight) finished the dragon off in grand style.

I'm just not sure what to do with high level characters from here, and what if any realistic challenges lie ahead for them.

Thanks for any advice...

Aluvial

 

[painandgreed]

How to end the campaign? Have them settle down. Come up with one last adventure savign the main country or something like that and give out land, titles, and important marriages as rewards. Have them settle down and detail their new roles in the world. Then have them role up new characters as their old PCs kids and start the new campaign, perhaps with some left over magic items from the parents and a save place to run to in reward for giving up their higher level characters.

How to keep the same thing from happening in the next campaign? I've been wanting to change the XP charts for a long time. they're too shallow right now and characters advance way to fast and easy. I've been thinking about using a set precent increace for each level but double seems a little too high so I've been looking at one and half times the XP to reach the next level as it took to reach the current. Slightly shallower than normal XP needed for the first five levels and then it gets harder.

 

[iwatt]

I'm just not sure what to do with high level characters from here, and what if any realistic challenges lie ahead for them.

Thanks for any advice...

Aluvial

Well, for some possibly helpful advice.

For realistic challenges, there is nothing realistic about DnD so...

But now seriously there are some good monster threads in the rogue gallery. For over the top epic monsters I recommend this thread

There's also Sephulcrave's rogue gallery for his epic game (which is about level 20-23 so might be helpful).


The thing with epic games is that they require a lot of DM perparation to adequately challenge the PCs. They also need the DM to feel comfortable with slower combats, multiple options, etc... What I reccomend you should do is sit down with your palyers and explain that you're feeling overwhelmed with running an epic game (personally I'm having trouble now at level 14 because I don't have enough time to prepare). They're probaly attached to theri characters and want to keep playing them due to a very understandable emotional attachment. But explain wto them that you're not suer you're ready for it. They'll probaly understand.

 

[Quasqueton]

I had a few characters hit 14th (maybe), but most stayed in the 6 to 11 range. Campaigns ended when characters hit name level or their racial maximums caught up with the bulk of them.

How did these campaigns end? Do the same now.

Quasqueton

 

[Plane Sailing]

Don't give them straight up combat challenges. Give them challenges which are not simply a bigger bag of hit points.

For great examples you could take a few days and read Sagiro's Story Hour - the PCs are well below 20th level but they have been active in one of the most epic campaigns I've come across.

If you want something which is more high level combat-oriented then Sepulchrave's Story Hour gives lots of ideas for epic level conflict with fiendish powers.

Cheers

 

[Corinthi]

Change the focus of the game away from adventuring. 20th Level characters with the best gear you're going to hand out, who've killed armies and dragons can easily settle down and down what's really important.

Build a better world. Or, at least, a world more in line with thier personal visions.

They have access to a freshly vacated Stronghold and a bad assed dragon horde. I'd imagine that an orcish horde with 140 9th level barbarians would control a fair sized track of land. Time to establish a kingdom, a monument to thier wisdom, wits, and prowess that will outlast thier lives and ensure thier immortal rememberance.

From there the challenges come in different varieties. Politics, intruige, the sheer work involved in establishing a kingdom. There are /tons/ of possible plothooks and adventures that might not revolve around epic battles and fantastic treasure, but will have a lasting impact on the story all the same.

Sounds like fun to me. YMMV.

 

[Aluvial]

Change the focus of the game away from adventuring. 20th Level characters with the best gear you're going to hand out, who've killed armies and dragons can easily settle down and down what's really important.

Build a better world. Or, at least, a world more in line with thier personal visions.

They have access to a freshly vacated Stronghold and a bad assed dragon horde. I'd imagine that an orcish horde with 140 9th level barbarians would control a fair sized track of land. Time to establish a kingdom, a monument to thier wisdom, wits, and prowess that will outlast thier lives and ensure thier immortal rememberance.

From there the challenges come in different varieties. Politics, intruige, the sheer work involved in establishing a kingdom. There are /tons/ of possible plothooks and adventures that might not revolve around epic battles and fantastic treasure, but will have a lasting impact on the story all the same.

Sounds like fun to me. YMMV.

All of this has started. I have PC's with fledgling kingdoms now, setting up churches and towns. It is quite fun, but the focus seems diluted. Running a kingdom is boring, tracking down the next challenge is what amps my players up.

Even though they own land (or have conquered it), they have this aimless way of meandering along with adventure after adventure. Not that I'm complaining, I just don't have an idea of what to do with them, except to end the campaign.

Thanks for the link to Dirge's creatures.

Aluvial

 

[Ellie_the_Elf]

What Corinthi said. I'm about to start running something along those lines, on an occasional basis, with two characters from my previous campaign who are *ahem* 30th level.

The elven bladesinger wants to try to reclaim Myth Drannor. The human wizard wants to bring mythal magic back to the realms. I have plans for a lot of political intrigue, planar travel to find people who might be able to help piece things together....and very little combat. And I can't wait to start it

On a semi-related note, should you decide to continue into epic, The Quicksilver Hourglass (from a recent Dungeon issue) is a very cool adventure, and even the incredibly powerful party I ran through it found it very challenging

Ellie.

 

[Aluvial]

On a semi-related note, should you decide to continue into epic, The Quicksilver Hourglass (from a recent Dungeon issue) is a very cool adventure, and even the incredibly powerful party I ran through it found it very challenging

Ellie.

Do you recall what Issue # that is?

Aluvial

 

[was]

I'd suggest either retiring them or taking them into other planes.