I like 3E, but I miss...

[dougmander]

"As much as I like 3E, when thinking back to 1st or 2nd edition AD&D, I have to admit that I miss _____________."

I do miss:
--the wacky tables in the 1st Ed. DMG
--the artwork of Dave Trampier
--cringing 1st level magic users who grow up to be godlike killing machines
--not knowing all the monster stats and spells by heart
--quick and easy character generation
--3d6 stat generation (when an 18 was something truly extraordinary!)
--character kits from 2e

I don't miss:
--the psionics and unarmed combat rules
--the saving throw system
--having to consult a table to see who hit whom
--d20s that wear down to spheroids after 20 or 30 hours' play
--having to rely on my mom to drive me to a game

 

[Trickstergod]

So many things, some of them already gone over, but let's see what I have to add, or at least, further support....

...no magic item shops. I liked how in the old Players Handbook or Dungeon Masters Guide said that even a lowly +1 sword was far too valuable for its owner to part with. I like magic items being special, not groceries. Which of course leads into...

...magic items not being overly necessary. Give the melee types a suit of magic armor and a magic weapon, and keep a good supply of magic arrows for any archers, and you were good to go. Which relates to...

...stats that didn't need to range into the low twenties to mid thirties just to be effective. So long as the Wizard had an Intelligence of 18, and the Cleric a Wisdom of 18, a character essentially didn't need much else. The stats from 1st level would still be about as effective at 20th. You didn't need a Cloak of Charisma, or a Belt of Giant Strength, or buffs out the wazoo. They were nice, but not necessary.

...I'd actually have to look into the books a bit and am feeling lazy, but I'm just going to shoot out and hope I'm right that Wizards were not more common than Rogues and Fighters in the DMG. Perhaps this changed with the revision, but the original 3rd edition handbook claims that amongst randomly encountered NPC's, a Wizard is more likely to be run across than Fighters and Rogues. What the crap?

...oh, yeah, and Planescape. The $40 I wouldn't plunk down for the Forgotten Realms hardcover, and that I'm leary about spending on Dragonlance, would likely go quite swiftly into a properly done Planescape book for 3rd edition. And this is in light of the fact that I think some of the philosophy behind it is rather cracked and silly. Despite its flaws, it's still a really good setting.

I'm sure there's more. For the most part I do like 3rd edition over older ones. I like balance. I like simplicity. I like options. But some of the flavor, some of the wonder, well, Wizards just killed it. Or at least isn't helping it much.

 

[drothgery]

Things I miss:
Non-generic clerics- the 2E sphere system was SO much better than domains

No it wasn't, at least not in the world-generic products (Priest's Handbook, Player's Option stuff, etc.). You got a lot of variation in abilities, but it was at the price of having nothing even vaguely resembling balance among the old sphere-based priests.

 

[KeithHays]

I miss that special feeling that we were doing something new, exciting, and different. It was like being part of a secret club of mages, that we and we alone had discovered this new magic and were determined to wrest out all its secrets.

That, and I miss being young, quick, having a full head of hair...QUOTE]


That great first paragraph summed it up. (What kind of game is THIS?) Just unfolding the whole concept was so exciting. Can't be reproduced in 3.x, sadly - it's a new version of the same thing you've done for 25 years. Of course, not being young and quick (although the hair is still hanging in) may equate to being jaded about things like this anymore.

And, of course, level titles and wandering prostitutes.

 

[qstor]

I miss rangers just being good.

In Dragonlance I miss the racial class limitations. I think that the Knights of Solomania and the Wizards of High Sorcery should be limited by race. Wizards to elves, half elves and humans which wasn't done...<sigh> Kender wizards...

 

[Impeesa]

As opposed to Ars Magica, which WotC owned for about the same amount of time, which practially looks just like D&D3E under the hood, and which Jonathan Tweet was codesigner of? I keep hearing the Talislanta thing, but, beyond the general idea that i'm sure they borrowed ideas from lots of places, i think the fact that D&D3E looks exactly like a 50/50 cross of AD&D2 Players' Option and Ars Magica pretty much answers the question.

Incidentally, I've taken up Rolemaster over the last year, and I see a lot of things that are suspiciously familiar. Of course, it's no secret that Monte Cook did a lot of work for ICE before coming to D&D.

--Impeesa--

 

[woodelf]

Incidentally, I've taken up Rolemaster over the last year, and I see a lot of things that are suspiciously familiar. Of course, it's no secret that Monte Cook did a lot of work for ICE before coming to D&D.

--Impeesa--

Out of curiosity, what? I recently got to read a copy of Players Option: Combat and Tactics for the first time, and discovered to my surprise that AoOs and essentially the current feat system were already in the game at that point. What does D&D3E have that isn't found in one of AD&D2, AD&D Players' Option, or Ars Magica? I can't off the top of my head think of anything whose clear antecedent isn't already accounted for. (But then, my head is pretty much asleep right now, i've never actually played with the Players Option books, i haven't played or really read the AD&D2 books for a decade, and i'm not super familiar with D&D3E, so i could easily be missing/forgetting something.)

 

[Chacal]

I miss...

- the specialty priests (at least the balanced ones, essentially in Monster Mythos). I truly despise the concept of a generic cleric (and just 2 little options are not enough to distinguish them IMO)

- the additional info about monsters (ecology...)

- the fact that multiclassing spellcasters was a viable option (ok it was seriously unbalanced, but we gained nothing in going from an extreme to another)



Chacal

 

[National Acrobat]

The Forgotten Realms when they were still cool. The gray box, from the end of 1e. When Elminster was like a 10th level mage. When there was no time of troubles, no Cyric, no Drizzt, no Seven Sisters, and the gods of evil were Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul. Does anyone else remember the fantastic parchment pages i that boxed set?

Funny you should mention that. I was mentioning that to my group about 6 weeks ago, almost verbatim. Since then, we have gone back and started from scratch, a 1E campaign using said Grey FR Edition, pre-time of troubles and all that and we have had a blast. So much fun, less rules, more role playing and the funny thing is that the younger players are learning about the Realms from a whole new perspective and loving it.

One of the best things we've ever done.

I don't hate 3E though. Still, we are having more fun with less dice.

 

[Grazzt]

Alrighty- the things I miss (in no particular order):


- The artwork of Trampier and Otus

- artwork featuring a lot less of a "dungeonpunk" theme. While I have no problems with body piercings (I have several myself) and "dungeonpunk" in general, it doesnt fit (IMHO) D&D.

- the non-video game feel that was prevelant in 1e (and 2e too I guess).

- Lower power level overall.

- the Illusionist class. The speciality illusionist does not evoke the same feel the 1e illusionist did. (Guys that ever played a 1e illusionist will know what I am talking about.)

- rarity of magic (items). Magic items in 3e/3.5e have become common place (thanks in part to the Item Creation feats).

- A lot of the random charts in the 1e DMG (potion miscibility, random powers for artifacts, prostitute table, etc., though these three are easily converted to 3e/3.5)