D&D 5E I little idea on 5e Core, pacing, and "dailies."

The "resource game" is very loosely codified into the game, all versions. It's often a bone of contention between DM and players, plus something that over-works DMs after certain styles of story/pacing that are not supported by it.
Let me shoot that back to say that yes, resource management causes so many problems and offers so little in return that it does demand to be looked at more deeply than we've see the 5e writers do so far.

The wording of "x times per day" for class features like Fighters Surge in the playtest packet does make me think the playtest resource management has placeholders for "insert a better design here later". Or maybe that's just me being hopeful.
I have similar hopes. There's really no excuse for this. The playtest fighter has several of the worst mechanics from several editions. Can't we learn from the past? If we're going to take elements from other editions of D&D, at least take the good parts. In any case, I don't know that these hopes will become reality.
 

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One of the huge disconnects we're dealing with among fans - old, new, edition- insistent/independent, hard-core or casual - is the way the game handles limited resources.

Resource management has been a big part of the game throughout it's history, regardless of which point in that history you consider the pinnacle. If you didn't care for resource management so much, there were simpler - and often much less effective - classes to play, so learning the game was often a matter of starting with such a class, then learning others, and finally getting the 'big picture.' That's a process a lot of players never finished. It meant that the game was difficult/time-consuming to learn, intimidating to new players, and hard to master. And, that kinda limited the pool of players ready to take the plunge and DM, too.

5e is trying to be all things to all gamers, and that really should include /new/ gamers. The face of the game to new gamers will, of course, be the core rules. Where else would you start, afterall? Currently, the core of 5e is not pointed at new players or new DMs, it's firmly targeting long-time fans. Players who have deeply held expectations about classes, magic, and many other little details, and DMs long accustomed to making off the cuff ruling, in-play adjustments and generally winging it. I suppose, for a playtest, that's fine. But for a released core product, it could be a problem. Not an existing-fan-base-dividing problem like 4e was, but maybe a limiting-the-growth-of-the-fanbase one.


In a thread on the WotC boards, a simple solution occurred to me. Take the most complex thing about D&D - all that resource management - and just excise it from core. That accomplishes all kinds of things. It focuses core on actual in-play mechanics and tactics rather than longer-term strategy. It erases the complexity of many classes. It strips the game down to a simple play experience that could be easy to grasp. From there, it could quickly (still in the PH or other entry-level product) introduce all kinds options, but it would be a starting point elegant in it's simplicity, easy to grasp, and a way of introducing new players to mechanics without mystifying them with complexity.

For instance, the basic game could be encounter-based and feature only 'at-will' abilities with minimal limitations on use and straightforward, clear explanations of how they function in game. That'd make it easier for new players - and new DMs.

That would also provide a clean core foundation upon which all the controversial options could be built up:

Hit points, for instance. Core, they'd be how much punishment you can take before you can no longer participate in the encounter. Don't even worry about whether that means you're 'dead' or 'unconscious,' it just means you're done. Next encounter, even if you're playing the same character, you start with full hps - not because you 'healed' in the meantime, but because that's just the starting condition of a character at the beginning of an encounter. From there, you could add a system like healing surges OR a system using ritual and consumable healing OR a system using only rest and time, or whatever.

Limited-use abilities, for another instance. Core, there'd be none. Your character has options, he can choose one to use each round. That's all. 0 resource management. You can add abilities that can only be used once each per encounter as an option. As a further option, you can change the recharge-rate of those abilities, making them 'daily' or 'per story' or whatever fits your campaign's pacing (and the same goes for healing resources like spells or surges or even rest & time), giving you anything up to and including 'Vancian.'



TL;DR: Make core 5e strictly encounter-based, it'll be more accessible to new players, vastly simpler, and easy to add resource management to when desired.

It actually makes a lot of sense from what WotC has said they want. Here's the bare-bones system. swing, swing, pew, pew, pew. We have modules to let you expand your character's abilities, but just so you know, it'll increase things to track and it'll also increase your character's power. We advise that people playing the same game use options that coincide. You want Wizards with more spells/ Here's a couple of options. Here's an AEDU system, here's a Vancian system, here's a path chosen system, here's an augmentation system.

AEDU system: Works well with other AEDU systems, path choice systems and augmentation systems. It can be used beside the Vancian system but power levels will not align as well.

*present module*

It would also cost you a lot of old-school players, for whom that resource management is an essential part of the game.

Screw 'em if they can't figure it out. Modules will need to be present in the initial release but this might actually be a way to make fans of the different editions actually happy.
You've seen the reaction to full overnight healing. What do you think it would be like if WotC moved to free healing with every encounter?
Because healing isn't even a consideration in the base game, simply "this is how long you are in the fight for, may we suggest one of the following modules to add more depth to you playing experience."

Again, for many of those OSR types that WotC want to recapture, the Vancian Wizard is an essential part of the game. Now, they may well be wrong about what makes for the best game, but they're certainly not wrong in what they will buy. Switch to your proposed zero resource management model, even if you include the later options in modules, and you automatically doom the attempt to reunite the factions - they just won't even look at it.

Again, the module would need to be in the initial release but if you lead a horse to water and the dumb thing dehydrates, well, that's on the horse."
I also disagree that simplicity, in itself, is actually a desirable goal. A lot of players like, and even require, a certain amount of complexity, and particularly enjoy emergent complexity in the game. (And it's also been shown that games with relatively heavy, comprehensive rules may actually be better for new players and new DMs than a simple set that requires more by way of rulings.)
But the issue is that "nobody" can agree on the level of complexity they want. This way would be "Here's the base system, and here's a bunch of shiny modules to chose from.

Of course the initial release would then have to be fairly monstrous.
 
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Screw 'em if they can't figure it out. Modules will need to be present in the initial release but this might actually be a way to make fans of the different editions actually happy.

Again, the module would need to be in the initial release but if you lead a horse to water and the dumb thing dehydrates, well, that's on the horse."

That logic only works if you don't need the horse in order to survive yourself. Otherwise, you damn well better find a way to make it drink.
 


One of the things that led me to this idea is the nature of some of the disconnects in what various fans wants. The healing debate, was a big one. A major source of disagreement is how long it should take to heal naturally (because that implies a lot about what hp damage represents, and because it can have a major impact on pacing and/or the practicality of low-magic campaigns). By putting all managed resources - healing, limited-use abilities, 'pressing on' awards like action points, etc - on one 'dial' that can be adjusted to fit the pacing of the campaign and style of the group, that problem is neatly solved without favoring any one of those approaches as default 'core.'
 

One of the things that led me to this idea is the nature of some of the disconnects in what various fans wants. The healing debate, was a big one. A major source of disagreement is how long it should take to heal naturally (because that implies a lot about what hp damage represents, and because it can have a major impact on pacing and/or the practicality of low-magic campaigns). By putting all managed resources - healing, limited-use abilities, 'pressing on' awards like action points, etc - on one 'dial' that can be adjusted to fit the pacing of the campaign and style of the group, that problem is neatly solved without favoring any one of those approaches as default 'core.'


I think you are on to a "good" approach. I think I am with Crazy_Jerome, though: turning the resource dial to zero is probably not a great start. Some level of resource management should be present at default core to teach those new players that there is a deeper aspect of the game. Teaching them to play a game without resource management is not a great way to introduce resource management.

I also think the idea is really one of multiple dials, not some singular, master, resource management dial:

HP/Healing dial
Magic Item Creation/Availability dial
Character Spell/Power dial
Gold dial
Damage dial
Skill dial
etc.

Each dial "tunable" to the desired 'level' by DMs and Players to suit their game. Core could (and probably should) have those dials turned closer towards a "simplified" resource management.

If you include a simplified Healing mechanic like you suggested for the low resource management, then you have to answer the questions:

"What is the high resource management healing mechanic"
"How many healing resource management options do we want in between these?"

My guess is 1 or 2 modules for any given "system" is all we'll see (core making a 3rd "option). High/Med/Low or High/Low will be the broad choices with "low" being core. That doesn't leave a lot of room for the various options people seem to be wanting (ie the healing hp issues)
 

I think Crazy Jerome has nailed this one. {Alas I cannot XP}

Whether some players like it or not, resource management is a core part of the D&D experience as are many other contentious or polarizing aspects of the game. If possible, the core rules should try to be where the pendulum sits rather than try to push the core to one extremity or the other. In this way, you can dial up or dial down to suit the group. Having the dial on zero or ten forces too much work in dialling from zero to ten or from ten to zero and thus overly distorts what can be assumed in play when trying to determine a standard play experience. The further issue is that by choosing one pole, edition or camp on an issue, it is validating that position while appearing to invalidate the others; and that is just going to upset people (see how a lot of 4e players feel a little unloved with the first iteration of playtest material).

To unite the editions and allow for the full spectrum of possible players new and old, I think you really have to meet in the middle when it comes to important issues such as this. I like Crazy Jerome's ideas (resource management across all classes) as they are simple enough to implement and understand, encourage a middle ground and can easily be discarded or reinforced.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 

I think you are on to a "good" approach. I think I am with Crazy_Jerome, though: turning the resource dial to zero is probably not a great start. Teaching them to play a game without resource management is not a great way to introduce resource management.
Nod. I tend to think in analytic terms, so reducing something to the simplest case as a starting point is natural. But I see the point. I do think starting without resource management /is/ a good introduction to resource management, because it'll have players wondering about such things. How is my character healing between encounters? Can't I do anything besides swing a sword or shoot a magic missile? Why /yes/, next module...

But, I could also see core having resources (beyond hps), just not anything as pacing-enforcing as 'daily' resources. Encounter still strikes me as the purest resource management period to start with. It's the smallest unit you can have, so the least issue of needing to track resources from one session to the next, and the simplest to grasp. You could give characters abilities that they only get to use once in a given battle. Like a fire-and-forget spell or an Action Point or a spectacular move or grenade-like magic item.

As you go up levels, you get more such resources. And, the DM can adjust the 'dial' to fit his campaign pacing, from Encounter, to Day, to Story or whatever calibration our crack design team decides is best.

But, I think rather than picking one setting on that dial to be the official 'core' starting point (and thus, perhaps, in some edition-warriors' minds, create the impression that 5e is 'just edition X'), starting with no resource management would A) make core style/pacing neutral (edition war Switzerland) and B) focus new players on the novel experience of roleplaying and upon learning the mechanics of the game.



Some level of resource management should be present at default core to teach those new players that there is a deeper aspect of the game.

I also think the idea is really one of multiple dials, not some singular, master, resource management dial[/quote]I'd picture multiple dials, certainly but I think all re-charging resources should recharge on the same dial. That is, if hps recover after every encounter, and barbarian rage and magic-item use every day, then spells shouldn't be recovered only at the end of the Adventure. Or, if it only takes few hours to recover all your spells, it shouldn't take 4 weeks to recover all your hit points. That would wildly throw things off. Whereas, if everything stays on the same schedule, the various resources can all be balanced relative to eachother.
 

One of the things that led me to this idea is the nature of some of the disconnects in what various fans wants. The healing debate, was a big one. A major source of disagreement is how long it should take to heal naturally (because that implies a lot about what hp damage represents, and because it can have a major impact on pacing and/or the practicality of low-magic campaigns). By putting all managed resources - healing, limited-use abilities, 'pressing on' awards like action points, etc - on one 'dial' that can be adjusted to fit the pacing of the campaign and style of the group, that problem is neatly solved without favoring any one of those approaches as default 'core.'
First off, interesting idea in your OP. I'm not sure how well it'd play in a campaign-style game where resources come and go over time, but I can sure see it being a useful option for tournament or convention play.

That said, in the greater game I'm not sure you can shoehorn all the different types of resource management onto one single dial, a) because there are so many types, and b) because different groups are going to care more/less about each different type. Result: each resource probably needs to be on its own little dial.

And there really are quite a few resources to (potentially) manage:

- spells castable and recovery of
- spells known
- healing
- hit points (and recovery via rest)
- limited-use items
- - one-shots (scrolls, potions)
- - charged items
- - x uses per y time items
- ammunition
- mundane equipment (torches, oil, rope, etc.)
- food and water
- encumbrance
- treasure and wealth
- - "liquid" wealth (coins, gems, etc.)
- - magic items owned/bought/sold/traded
- - real estate (businesses, castles, temples, etc.)
- henchmen/hirelings/cohorts
- animals and food/gear for such
- experience points (in 3e these are a spendable resource)
- action/fate/hero points (in games that use such)
- time

Some groups happily ignore managing some of these. A very few do fine while managing them all. But I highly doubt there's a group out there who outright don't bother managing any of these resources.

Lan-"all these little dials and switches and levers - what fun"-efan

EDIT: and Tony, the OP, just said much the same thing while I was typing this!
 

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