I saw the MATRIX 2 thread SPOILERS ABOUND

John Crichton · May 17, 2003

Viking Bastard said:
Link.

Lock is Niobe's new boyfriend. The general/commander/dude.

Oh yeah, thanks.

Lock didn't sound right. That'll teach me to post while watching baseball... doh.

Olgar Shiverstone · May 18, 2003

1. I'm holding out for the "Zion is another level of the Matrix" theory.

2. The "humans as batteries" thing will probably be true -- because its such a lame idea it can only work in a movie.

3. Did anyone else find fault with the editing? The rave scene -- definitely too long; one or two fight scenes were overdone (the one with Seraph seemed to be in there "just because there hadn't been a fight in a while"); despite how good the car chase/freeway scene was, I got tired of the same bridge on the Oakland freeway going by over and over and over. A lso thought the use of super-slow motion in scenes (which was really neat in the first movie) was way overdone -- sometimes I felt like I was playing a video game on a computer whose processor was getting over-clocked, and kept randomly slowing down.

4. Mostly I'm just PO'd because we didn't stay through the credits for the trailer. Good movie (not as good as the first, IMO, but then it's the middle of a trilogy, and hard to just until after the last movie).

Krug · May 18, 2003

Greg from Fantasy Flight Games has an interesting take:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/rants.html

It’s obvious now that the Matrix isn’t the system, it’s just one program running on the system. We pretty much knew this from the first movie, but this one hangs a lot of stuff on it. The film leaves the real possibility open that the Real World is just another simulation. If this is the case, the Brothers Wachowski have their work cut out for them, because that’s a pretty tired idea.

Potentially, though, they could do some interesting things with the whole Buddhist “circles of enlightenment” angle. The path of the enlightened one is to peel away the layers of illusory reality until he reaches Nirvana. It is interesting that Neo was offered a choice: return to the Source or stay in the Matrix and try to save Trinity. Neo chose to stay in the Matrix. When he achieved enlightenment, the Buddha was also given a choice: enter Nirvana or stay in the world guiding others along the path of enlightenment. The Buddha chose to stay. Previous Neos apparently chose the Source. So is it really Nirvana? Probably not, as that choice is apparently what resulted in yet another reboot and a new karmic cycle of rebirth. Getting out of this cycle is supposed to be the end result of enlightenment.

The Grumpy Celt · May 18, 2003

Olgar Shiverstone said:
4. Mostly I'm just PO'd because we didn't stay through the credits for the trailer.

So you missed the sequence where Neo and Agent Smith dance, prance and spin in pink tutu's while Morphious intones "There is some thing wrong with the pro gram ing." And you missed whole hole bit where Agent Smith takes the One Ring from the One.

Actually, the reaction of Agent Blankface to the apperance of Agent Smith was interesting, as was Agent Smiths apperance in the corrodor. The trailer for the sequel posses even more interesting questions about Agent Smith.

Just because some of the viewers are tired of the "reality is an illusion" does not mean the Brothers W are also tired. And if the Brothers W are not tired of the "reality is an illusion," then Zion may also be fake.

Did you notice that Evil French Program has naturaly pointed ears?

Did you notice that "Bride of Dracula" was playing in the lounge where the body guards for Evil French Program were waiting? Vampires indeed.

Consider this...

...perhaps the Oracle, the Architech and the Evil Frenchman with pointed ears And if the Brothers W are not tired of the "reality is an illusion" then Zion may also be fake. are all trapped and fooled by various levels of programming to which they are not aware as Neo was at the start of the first movie.

Grog · May 18, 2003

I really enjoyed the movie, though there were a few things I didn't like.

1. The rave scene. I got the point after about ten seconds, but it just went on... and on... and on...

2. Why is Neo still using kung-fu? Doesn't he understand that there are no fists, no feet, that it's all just code? We saw him unravel an agent in the first movie; why doesn't he do that now? And if he can stop bullets, why can't he stop all physical force directed at him? He seems to have forgotten most of what he learned in the first movie.

3. The fight scenes were cool, but they went on too long. And the big brawl with all the Smiths was pointless - why didn't Neo just fly away at the beginning? For that matter, why didn't he fly through the door before the Twin could close it?

And I really, really hope that they don't go the "matrix-within-a-matrix" route. That would be a huge cop-out, IMO. The problem with that answer would be, how do you ever know when you're really out? If the machines can make two matrixes, why can't they make 700, all layered on top of each other?

All in all, though, a good movie, and well worth a trip to the theater.

Guilt Puppy · May 18, 2003

Wow, I've read through this whole thread, and I'm shocked with how much speculation has been said about Agent Smith, no one has made the observation: Agent Smith is a virus.

It makes sense: Neo can manipulate the matrix to his will, which means manipulating code and data... The ripping off of the headset "tore out" a big chunk of Agent Smith's code: His ties to the Matrix, which essentially turned him into a rogue entity.

Also, keep in mind that the body-inhabiting didn't come out of nowhere. It's what agents do... He just doesn't have to leave the body (through what? He lacks the earpiece, which I think might serve as the agent-equivalent to the Telephones)...

What I can't quite figure out is why, given free will, Agent Smith still wants to kill Neo... Is that just remnants of previous programming, resentment for being brought into existance this way, or what?

In any case, Smith seems like he might be the key to bringing down the Matrix... Although the cost is, well, questionable. As a virus, he can basically take over and become the whole system... Whether or not mankind gets jettisoned in the process is anyone's guess (but hey, at least there's Zion, if indeed that is "real"...) In any case... Yeah, I'll go see the third one, just to get the system of confusion resolved.

Starman · May 18, 2003

And the big brawl with all the Smiths was pointless - why didn't Neo just fly away at the beginning? For that matter, why didn't he fly through the door before the Twin could close it?

The issue of Neo staying to fight all of the Smiths has been discussed a bit and the best answer is probably that Neo wanted to find out what was going on. Why is Smith back and why are there so damn many of him?

As for him flying, it seemed that it took a second of effort for him to concentrate before he could fly. He probably would not had enough time to do that before the door was shut.

Starman

d12 · May 18, 2003

Guilt Puppy said:
Wow, I've read through this whole thread, and I'm shocked with how much speculation has been said about Agent Smith, no one has made the observation: Agent Smith is a virus.

Hey! If that's the case then it would tie in nicely with his speech in the first movie about classifying human beings as viruses.

The W. Bros seem very very fond of providing clues about what's going to happen. In the first movie, the scene with the Oracle and Neo sort of telegraphs everything to the audience about what's going to happen for the rest of the movie. Re-watch the movie, and then watch that scene a few times.

Also, I liked the rave scene. I think we needed to see that Zion was a "real" place full of dirty, sweating, dancing, mating humans with love, jealousy, disagreements, children, etc... I think it makes the audience care about Zion. Sure, it could have been a little shorter, but there were some pretty cool eye-candy shots in there.