D&D 5E I think 5E needs less innovation.

[Reynard]

Looking at so many threads about what should and should not be a part of 5E, it occurs to me that if the stated goal is to make 5E a common point of reference for D&D players of all stripes, then a lot these ideas getting tossed out there (and some of them are very cool) are missing the point. To meet the stated goal, 5E needs to look a lot like a paired down 3E, or even a Castles and Crusades. You need to be able to open a book from any edition and minus flipping ACs and maybe fiating saves from one category (poison) to another (fortitude), be able to run with it.

I think a lot of people are looking for a 5E that looks even less like D&D than 4E, a "what if D&D was invented today" approach, and while that might very well create a great game, it won't achieve the stated goal of 5E as a central hub of D&D play. Frankly, if 5E is too "innovative" it will be a failure -- old version gamers, including 4E players, will just stick to their preferred edition.

For D&D, tradition and nostalgia matter. It isn't just a Fantasy RPG, it is D&D, and if the debates surrounding 4E's launch and the subsequent fragmenting of the base and flight to Pathfinder and retro-clones shows us anything, it is that D&D *is* something particular, even if it's hard to articulate and the edges get fuzzy sometimes. But more importantly, mechanically speaking if it is going to be "compatible" it needs to preserve and even resurrect some sacred cows.

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

Well WoTC is have a problem, if 5e is anything like you said it will alienate players like myself that are looking for a more modern game. Well maybe it is worth for them.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

If you've got four of five versions of something circling around a central point, some of them may be closer to the center than others. But if you want to appeal to fans of all versions, the center is never any particular version. Thus hitting the real center may require you to do something new. Granted, if your analysis or implementation is off, you may fly off the map instead. If it were easy, anyone could do it.

 

[Spatula]

Yeah. I rather expect 5e to look a lot like Castles & Crusades, or some other retro-clone that incorporated 3e ideas. Unless they're writing off the players that shunned 3e, in which case I expect it to look like an updated version of 3e that fixes some of the problems.

 

[Aldarc]

And I here I was about to make a thread about how I was wondering how 5E can truly be "innovative" in its improvements if it constantly has to appease players of all past editions 1-4E.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Baseline D&Dn needs to be turned way, way down - but it needs to have easily accessible attachment points and controls for people who want the full bore turned up to 11 D&D game.

I think perhaps I've given the opinion that I'm all about "just give us AD&D and walk away" but I'm not. What would that solve? It'd just weaken the game more and we'd be right back here in five or six years. During which there'd be a lot of acrimony.

Nope, don't want that at all.

 

[enrious]

And I here I was about to make a thread about how I was wondering how 5E can truly be "innovative" in its improvements if it constantly has to appease players of all past editions 1-4E.

5e's biggest obstacle isn't the future - it's the past.

 

[DonTadow]

5e's biggest obstacle isn't the future - it's the past.

The death of 3.5 was very much like the death of superman storyline. You had a lot of folk take up the mantle.

5e has a chance to redo th emistakes of the transion of 3.5 to 4e and unite everyone under the dnd flag again. Or, it will permanently alienate a lot of folks. Some things need to return, some things need to be changed, other things need to be modernized.

You can bring in new players and satisfy the new rpg age without alienating old players. I've never met a person who was confused at 5ft = a square. Little changes like that will alienate people.

 

[DEFCON 1]

5e has a chance to redo th emistakes of the transion of 3.5 to 4e and unite everyone under the dnd flag again. Or, it will permanently alienate a lot of folks. Some things need to return, some things need to be changed, other things need to be modernized.

You can bring in new players and satisfy the new rpg age without alienating old players. I've never met a person who was confused at 5ft = a square. Little changes like that will alienate people.

But let's also be honest here... players from all the editions also could do with lightening up a little.

I mean, when the books finally get released and it turns out the game does an exceedingly good job at allowing all versions of the game to be recreated... but we still get people coming on here complaining that spells are measured in feet rather than squares (or vice versa)... or complaining that the rules set up for using the battlemat (if used) keep the rules for diagonals at 1-1-1 instead of going back to 1-2-1 (or vice versa)... then that says a lot about how pissy we all are. And at that point the game should probably die out because it just proves we really don't deserve to have a D&D game anymore because we're too concerned with whining about our own personal idiosyncratic gamer crap then just enjoying ourselves.

I'm hoping that when the time comes that we can let the little stuff slide if it doesn't exactly match our "dream rules", especially if the big stuff turns out really well.

 

[Aldarc]

But let's also be honest here... players from all the editions also could do with lightening up a little.

I mean, when the books finally get released and it turns out the game does an exceedingly good job at allowing all versions of the game to be recreated... but we still get people coming on here complaining that spells are measured in feet rather than squares (or vice versa)... or complaining that the rules set up for using the battlemat (if used) keep the rules for diagonals at 1-1-1 instead of going back to 1-2-1 (or vice versa)... then that says a lot about how pissy we all are. And at that point the game should probably die out because it just proves we really don't deserve to have a D&D game anymore because we're too concerned with whining about our own personal idiosyncratic gamer crap then just enjoying ourselves.

I'm hoping that when the time comes that we can let the little stuff slide if it doesn't exactly match our "dream rules", especially if the big stuff turns out really well.

Which is why the game should go metric.