I think I'm over crunch

[Incenjucar]

The problem is that the most useful books would be "how to make" books, but they're also the most likely to destroy sales of other books.

Thankfully, they do make them on rare occassion; I still peruse my 2e World Builder's Guide.

 

[Li Shenron]

Yet... when we release products like these (Powers that Be: City Council - detailing a full city council, with plots, intrigues, power blocks, adventure hooks and seeds, a detailed castle location where the city council meets...) we don't see any real sales movement at all - making it so the work that goes into these sourcebooks isn't worth the effort for the writer, artist and layout person.

Although I am in fact surprised to read so many posters wish for this kind of sourcebooks, that's something which is always missing from our games.

Probably a good sourcebook to generate urban environments is what I would really like to have to help me in DMing. There's a problem however... a really GREAT book like that would sell well but you'd never need to do that again

The 3.5 DMG web enhancement was a good idea, and I wish there was one day a full-developed product in that direction. Come on Wizards, give it a try! You still have minis to boost your cash...

 

[Li Shenron]

I can't see why people snap up those books filled with endless PrCs and feats. Are they making that many characters? Do they need to make a new character every three months? How many feats can a guy have?

Right, that's something we often wonder as well... personally I still haven't had the chance to play all the PHB races and classes!

The noise-to-signal ratio is most definatly out of whack.

Not to mention BER...

 

[National Acrobat]

Another Amen all around. I've scaled back, sold all of my 3E books that aren't the core books, and run my 3E campaigns only with the Core Books. I've gotten so tired of the PrC's and all the other feats, spells, etc. No More!

Too much staring into rose-coloured glasses will make you go crosseyed.

Complete Fighter's Handbook
Complete Wizard's Handbook
Complete Ranger's Handbook
Complete Paladin's Handbook
Complete Thief's Handbook
Complete Priest's Handbook
Complete Bard's Handbook
Complete Book of Elves
Complete Book of Dwarves
Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings
Complete Book of Humanoids
Arms and Equipment Guide
Tome of Magic
Player's Option: Skills and Powers
Player's Option: Combat and Tactics

Yeah, but as DM, I never allowed all those things. Sure, it pissed players off who bought them, but I couldn't tolerate the load after load of 'optional' rules. Seems the players never saw any of that as optional. To me, it's the same retreaded ideas from 2E that has gotten into 3E. Simple way to avoid it is to not use it and not buy it.

 

[Belen]

Too much staring into rose-coloured glasses will make you go crosseyed.

Complete Fighter's Handbook
Complete Wizard's Handbook
Complete Ranger's Handbook
Complete Paladin's Handbook
Complete Thief's Handbook
Complete Priest's Handbook
Complete Bard's Handbook
Complete Book of Elves
Complete Book of Dwarves
Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings
Complete Book of Humanoids
Arms and Equipment Guide
Tome of Magic
Player's Option: Skills and Powers
Player's Option: Combat and Tactics

Hmm...but you ignore the fact that a good portion of those complete books were fluff. They explained how to be a fighter, bard etc. The kits were only a small portion of the complete books.

Have to disagree with you on this one.

 

[Belen]

Yet... when we release products like these (Powers that Be: City Council - detailing a full city council, with plots, intrigues, power blocks, adventure hooks and seeds, a detailed castle location where the city council meets...) we don't see any real sales movement at all - making it so the work that goes into these sourcebooks isn't worth the effort for the writer, artist and layout person.

Lack of advertising? This is the first I have heard of this book and I visit EnWorld on a regular basis.

 

[BryonD]

They explained how to be a fighter, bard etc.

People really need help with this????

My 6 year old daughter uses her imagination on her own all the time.

 

[chris7476]

This is the first I have heard of this book and I visit EnWorld on a regular basis.

Me too. That book actually sounds pretty cool.

 

[MerricB]

Hmm - I see the definition of "fluff" is become rather broad.

I know that when I see "fluff", I think of the descriptive writing that goes into supplements. Things like "The trees get golden leaves in the winter". Stuff that only really serves a purpose as a possible inspiration for the DM and players.

I see fluff as something complete different to good old-fashioned advice, something that you see quite a lot of in the DMG (thanks, Monte!) and somewhat in other books. (In the Complete Warrior, for instance, there is advice on running a Mercenary/War campaign). Dungeoncraft is an excellent advice column. (Though when Ray Winninger was writing it, the fluff content got quite high towards the end, as his world didn't interest me at all!)

There are also Adventure Seeds, which are more focused than general descriptive writing. "The Zombie Master is missing, lost in a nearby tar pit." These can be inspire single encounters to entire campaigns. (I rather like the random encounter tables in Midkemia Press' Cities supplements.)

I tried today to read through Dungeon Magazine's description of Hardby... and just couldn't make it. It just wasn't relevant to me. I did feel I was drowning in irrelevant details.

You can probably categorise further elements of non-rules writing. Where, for instance, does the Magical Medieval Society fall?

The divide is not simply Fluff vs. Crunch, and it is important to keep that in mind.

Cheers!

 

[Desdichado]

I have, however, started buying Campaign Settings. It's kind of weird, because I know that I am far less likely to actually use them compared to regular supplements. However, I think that they probably contain the most innovative and imaginative roleplaying material out there, and I quite enjoy reading them.

Yeah, that's me. I'm much more likely to find material that is adaptable into my homebrews too, even though I don't actually run published campaign settings. I'm also more likely to adapt a CS specific bit of crunch if I can see it's context it seems; I'm thinking of adding Dragonmark tattoos to my game now, for instance, and maybe even an obscure place where Warforged are hanging out that can later be discovered, etc.