I think the D&D line needs a "Bridge" product

JeffB

Legend
Last night for the first time ever, my better half actually showed some interest in my D&D books. She plays a lot of adventure games with me on the Playstation and whatnot, but has NEVER expressed ANY interest in my PnP RPG’s or what I’m reading. She said to me” I would just like to see how these games are actually played, I just don’t understand them.” Currently I’m not playing any games due to family and work time consumption, and don’t plan to for the next couple of months, so I knew I could not “show” her other than to start up a game with just her. However I knew she didn’t want to actually play yet, just see how it’s done and I did not want to push too hard and possibly ruin her interest.

So I grabbed my 3E DMG off my nightstand and proceeded to read her the “example of play” therein, just to give her an inkling of how the game is run. She understood how the dice were involved in the basic sense (I explained the core mechanic) and explained what the DM did, and how he used the Dungeon map, and a map key, etc.

After reading through the example, she asked some more basic questions, and I answered them. One point she made that hit home was “three 200 page plus books of RULES?” Of course I explained that the PHB was only necessary for play, that the DMG and MM were the province of the DM, etc. I can understand totally how overwhelming the AD&D systems, and the 3E systems can be: that’s why the make the introductory boxed set. However it occurred to me that for the first 15 or so years of the game there was an alternate to the complexity of those systems: the OD&D game (B/X/C, etc). A fully functional rule system that had a large amount of support products that was also simple to learn and play without overwhelming the newcomer.

That product is missing from the current 3E game. It’s feast or famine. A player can start out with the introductory boxed set, which basically allows one to just run a few rudimentary games with pre-gen characters, learn some game terminology, learn how to roll what dice when, etc, but is far from a “fully functional” system. One has to jump right into the full-blown 3E game. Which is intimidating at times to ME, so I can only imagine how it might intimidate others far less familiar with D&D or those just starting out.

I wish now that I had pulled out an old Basic Set and showed it to her. I think this kind of “bridge product” would be much less intimidating. I know that the sheer mass of rules and the size of the books definitely (despite my explanations) put a serious damper on the spark of enthusiasm that my wife showed last night.

I know Kenzer is working on something called Hackmaster Lite, but I’m not sure if it’s going to be a similar product to a “basic set”.

Am I alone in this line of thinking? Does anyone else feel that there needs to be a bridge product of sorts? I realize we are all hard-core gamers here, but in trying to put my feet in a newcomer to RPG’s shoes, I can’t help but feel the full blown 3E core books are just “way too much” to bring in much new blood.

Thoughts?
 

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I agree. It is currently too hard for new players to start playing. And my goodness, let's hope they are not trying to learn from scratch!
 

I totally agree.

There needs to be a stripped down version of D&D for newcomers. My girlfriend has advanced degrees, knows calculus, and is in all ways a smart person. But she takes one look at the "basic" rules and gives up right there.
 


I'm inclined to agree. I started playing just over a year ago -- without the simplified box set, just plunging straight in -- and I'm still getting a handle on some of the rules. It's a massive system. And I have D&D Basic, which seems much easier, but I have never played. :)

So yeah, it's a good idea. Watered-down D&D would seem a lot less daunting (even to someone who's been playing a year -- I was deeply overwhelmed when I first started).
 

I think it would be neat if someone created a video that shows a group of people playing. At places, it might be paused so the narrartor can describe something.

They may spark interest, but maybe not explain the rules well. However, you interest someone enough...and they may curl up with a rule book on a rainy day.
 

I've been kicking around the same idea for months now, although for slightly different reasons--namely time and getting people together at the same time. RPG's take quite a bit of prep time and a lot of time to play, if you think about it, and, as you've already mentioned, there's the learning curve.

I've been working on a rudimentary system that is a lot of fun, even in its present form. I'm running short on time, so I'll cut to the chase. I've been thinking a lot about doing some more playtesting, polishing and then publishing the system, although here's my basic quandry. To d20 or not d20? Any opinions? I can provide more info a little later.
 

Walter_J said:
I've been kicking around the same idea for months now, although for slightly different reasons--namely time and getting people together at the same time. RPG's take quite a bit of prep time and a lot of time to play, if you think about it, and, as you've already mentioned, there's the learning curve.

I've been working on a rudimentary system that is a lot of fun, even in its present form. I'm running short on time, so I'll cut to the chase. I've been thinking a lot about doing some more playtesting, polishing and then publishing the system, although here's my basic quandry. To d20 or not d20? Any opinions? I can provide more info a little later.

Your system sounds very interesting! I look forward to hearing more about it. Being a d20 fan...I'd probably vote for d20.
 

I think there's a fundamental problem with the "D&D Lite" idea.

It's too expensive. You're basically talking about creating a separate game line, one with its own range of supporting products and marketing needs and design and everything. We had this for many years with "D&D" and "Advanced D&D" -- I think there's a reason Wizards hasn't gone down that path. It's a bad path.

Your "Lite" sales end up cannibalizing your "Advanced" sales. If the "Lite" game is fully functional then for many people it will be good enough for them to keep playing it -- why switch to Advanced? Remember, most people believe that the first version of any system they try, be it OS, Word Processor or whatever, is the best version. So all those potential new Advanced sales become Lite sales instead, and your Advanced sales begin to drop. Now what do you do? Do you create support materials for Lite, thus taking away resources for Advanced and alienating those players? Can you charge as much for Lite -- are your margins going to be as good? All these decisions, all this information needs to be acquired and the chances that you are going to make a mistake rise dramatically. It's very risky.

Recall Ryan Dancey's comment after he went through TSR's financials -- the only product that made money was the Player's Handbook. Everything else was a loss leader designed to drive sales of the PHB. So why create a whole new game that will reduce PHB sales? It's suicide.

I wonder how many people who are put off by D&D's complexity would EVER buy a PHB, regardless of how gently they were introduced to the game concepts.

Would your "better half" ever buy their own PHB? If not, then there's no value to Wizards in getting them to understand the game.

Finally, far and away the best way to introduce anyone to D&D is to have them join a game. People don't have to know the rules to enjoy the game -- which is one of the hardest things to explain about it. My wife has NEVER cracked the PHB, and yet she's one of our group's great players.

Now she'll never buy anything from Wizards, but having her play sure makes it easier for ME to do so! ;)
 

barsoomcore, you make some excellent points. Though I've played D&D off-and-on for 25 years, I would probably be one of those who use the lite version only.

Don't get me wrong, I mostly like what WOTC did with 3E, but it's too complex. I'm not a newbie to roleplaying, I've been playing 3E since it came out, and I still catch myself making basic mistakes. If WOTC ever does a 4th edition, my number one request is that they organize the rules in a modular way: only the most basic rules required, with all other rules optional add-ons, similar to 3E psionics.

Anyone who remembers the old Avalon Hill wargames would be familiar with the concept - many of their games had basic, advanced, and optional rules sections. For D&D, it would be a difficult balancing act, but (IMHO) it would enhance the game greatly.
 

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