D&D 5E I think WotC has it backwards (re: story arcs)

[Trickster Spirit]

It lost close to 11 million dollars.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=dungeonsanddragons.htm
So while the $33.8 million dollars it pulled in would be amazing by RPG standards it was poor by movie standards.

Yes, I looked up the same statistics before posting that - hence why I said it had cost more than that to make, and also that a potential Universal flick would obviously have to not be a flop to make more than the tabletop industry.

Even a modest success at the box office would bring in more than the D&D tabletop books could possibly achieve in a year. More importantly, it's done at no cost to WotC whatsoever and grows the fanbase for the video game franchise and tabletop game. Not to mention the potential for rinsing and repeating through sequels.

 

[Jester David]

[MENTION=37579]Jester Canuck[/MENTION], you're committing what could be called "Car Mechanic Fallacy" - an expert in a field (erroneously) believing that other people understand the field like they do. While I agree that converting old adventures is relatively easy, it is a bit daunting for all but experienced DMs. Not to mention those relatively experienced DMs, such as myself, that simply want new, pre-written material to choose from.

Converting adventures isn't *that* hard. The hard part of DMing is coming up with stories, maps, NPCs, plots, etc. Having to build encounters is only so-so. A rigorous update (converting all the statblocks) is tricky, but reimagining the encounters with different monsters is easier, and just swapping out statblocks is dead simple.

Plus you learn by doing. You become a better DM by fumbling through a conversion or cobbling together an adventure.
(This also assumes no one else has done the conversion. There are dozens of fully converted Pathfinder APs with full 5e statblocks. So all the work is already done.)

What I don't understand is why WotC won't try to emulate a publication schedule somewhat similar to, even if reduced from, what Paizo is offering. Paizo is doing quite well, publishes two adventure paths a year, I believe, in monthly installments, several campaign supplements and a bunch of one-off adventures a year, plus a few other odds and ends - including 2-3 hardcovers. It works. It doesn't have to be 2E-3E-4E style glut.

Funny thing, Paizo is producing content in excess of what TSR was producing at their peak. So it is very much a 2e-style glut. (Excluding the magazines.) Not as bad as 3e during its peak, but pretty darn close. Paizo is putting out an insane amount of content.

 

[Hussar]

It lost close to 11 million dollars.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=dungeonsanddragons.htm
So while the $33.8 million dollars it pulled in would be amazing by RPG standards it was poor by movie standards.

Even with an 11 million dollar loss, it probably still made more money than RPG companies do.

/joke.

 

[delericho]

Not the best business plan.

Actually, it's not bad. The mistake lies in thinking they're interested in selling books, when actually their interest is in selling D&D. Where they'll likely get a bigger return on investment by selling licenses - for movies, for TV series, for video games, etc.

And part of their thinking is that the licenses they can offer will be worth considerably more if they can say "we have 6 million regular players" than if they can 'only' say "we have 1 million regular players".

So the plan becomes one where they work to maximise the number of players, by offering a free-to-play version of the game, by offering free in-store play programmes, by supporting their 'storylines' with free player's guides and free downloads for the DM, and so on and so forth. Because while they would be quite happy if all their players rushed out and bought PHBs at $50 a go, it's actually of more value just to have them playing the game.

In effect, the RPG is a loss-leader for the brand as a whole. Or it would be, except that according to their CEO D&D is currently "on a tear", meaning we've successfully thwarted their cunning plan to not sell any books.

 

[Kramodlog]

AP might be better than splat, though.

Storyline is probably better than just splat. I mean linking a splat book and a source book with the AP is better. Just making an AP seems like they are producing something that is incomplete.

 

[Kramodlog]

Do you even know what a "straw man argument" is?

Yes. Attacking something that I haven't said. Which you did. I said you do not need to play the game to buy the books. You said that I only buy the books to read them. Not the same statement.

Which has nothing to do with my point. I wasn't talking about WotC... I was asking why the people who want to buy RPG books for reasons other than playing the game (which to you apparently means for something *other* than reading, but okay...) why do those people have to buy 5E books?

I wrote it already and you ignored it. For some people RPGs are D&D exclusively. Buying other RPGs is not part of the equation as other RPGs do not "exist" or are unimportant. I'll go further and say that D&D is often the first RPG people play and that there is a special emotional relation to D&D. It makes it more desirable than other RPGs. It is also the most known. Viewed as an industry leader. People will buy it just to see where RPGs are now and where they are going. Collection is another reason.

So, there are plenty of reasons why people would want to buy D&D above any other RPG and tons why they would want to buy D&D with other RPGs. And there are plenty of legitimate reasons why people want more support.

Face it, the arguments that if 5e's out put isn't enough for you just go elsewhere or shut up or make it yourself are weak and have been adressed many times. Find something else.

 

[Kramodlog]

As Parmandur has pointed out, whether or not a movie puts an RPG at the top of the charts is irrelevant - they'll be too busy swimming in movie money Scrooge McDuck style to notice a paltry increase in tabletop profits.

You guys are assuming the movie, if WotC gets the rights back, will be a success. The last three D&D movies were flops.

People who are adamant about needing lots of expansions to remain interested in the game are not Wizard's target demographic anymore

I find it odd that a compagnie doesn't want to catter to people who want to give it money. The RPG business might be small, it is still a million dollar industry with D&D capable of getting the lion's share (more than 50% according to the owner of Black Diamond Games).

There is other money elsewhere? Sure. You can walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[Kramodlog]

In effect, the RPG is a loss-leader for the brand as a whole. Or it would be, except that according to their CEO D&D is currently "on a tear", meaning we've successfully thwarted their cunning plan to not sell any books.

Who is surprised about the "tear" anyway? D&D was shelved for two years after an unpopular edition. People were curious and starved. Not a big surprised the core books sold well. Will it remain so?

The next ICv2 rankings should come out early next month. But the one I'm really curious about is the next one. The summer one that will englobe May, June, July and August (they are doing three rankings a year now). No D&D books will have come out during that period and the launch will be a year old.

Of course the "tear could continue thanks to SCL and the RPG's revenues be drowned in the video game revenues. I just do not see the APs combined with the royalties, if any, from the spellcards, the board games and the minis fueling the "tear".

 

[delericho]

Who is surprised about the "tear" anyway? D&D was shelved for two years after an unpopular edition. People were curious and starved.

As Mistwell has pointed out more than once, for the CEO to say that on an earnings call it's not enough for D&D to be doing well relative to two years ago, it needs to be doing well relative to Hasbro as a whole. That's huge, even in a new edition cycle.

Not a big surprised the core books sold well. Will it remain so?

The next ICv2 rankings should come out early next month. But the one I'm really curious about is the next one. The summer one that will englobe May, June, July and August (they are doing three rankings a year now). No D&D books will have come out during that period and the launch will be a year old.

Yes, I'll be interested to see those as well. Whether, and for how long, D&D continues to do well is an interesting question.

 

[teitan]

I wouldn't call the last two flops because they were tv movies and direct to DVD. A flop would be a theatrical release.