D&D 5E I want more flavorful wizard subclasses.

[fuindordm]

We know that straight Evoker is one of the four from UA5. So they're likely going for the ones with strongest themes and identity, not trying to fit in all eight schools. My money is on Evoker, Illusionist, Necromancer, and the fourth will be a wildcard that isn't a school based subclass at all. Either Bladesinger if they're willing to put the melee cantrips in the PHB or a brand new subclass if they're not.

I don't think the evoker has any identity. It's the boring subclass for casual players like the life cleric and the champion.

DM: What kind of wizard do you want to be?
Player: I dunno, someone who blasts things?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I don't think the evoker has any identity. It's the boring subclass for casual players like the life cleric and the champion.

DM: What kind of wizard do you want to be?
Player: I dunno, someone who blasts things?

In fairness, "plain oatmeal" is a flavor, and generally it's useful to offer such blank-canvas flavors for folks who desire such a thing.

I just find that certain classes (like Wizard) were built so that most subclasses become like that.

 

[nevin]

I had a thought about the wizard recently. Most wizard subclasses are based on the wizard schools of magic. Some of them are fine, like illusionists and necromancers. Yet when I think of subclasses such as the abjurer, conjurer, or transmuter, I get a bit bored.

What I suggest instead is stronger, more flavorful archetypes. Something that says that they are still academic, learned mages at heart, but they do it in different ways. So while your illusionists and necromancers are still strong archetypes, I want to see rune mages, witches, and war mages as well.

To me, that would make the wizard more appealing. What do you think? If WotC took this approach, what are wizard subclasses you would want to see?

see I think going into specialty mages was a mistake for DND. Too many of the schools are just lousy for combat and some are just lousy for anything but combat. I think just Mage, to about level 10, could throw some archetypes and then make the specialty stuff start kicking in after 10. Let 10 to 20 be the time the wizard works on a speciality or becomes the Archmage generalist.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Where does summoning magic fit in with these 4?

primariliy evocation, but there'd be a few in transmutation where you directly form a creature from existing materials, ie: you can 'create/evoke' undead purely from negative energy but you can also 'change/transmute' a corpse into an undead.

But I really don't see why the schools are even needed - as even when reduced in number, they're still mostly going to be a keyword for various effects to target. Wouldn't it be cooler to have dedicated spell lists for variant casters and sub-classes?

while i don't think they contribute much by themselves i think there is potential when combined with the idea of specialised and forbidden spell schools, which don't exactly exist in significant capacity in 5e.

I think Necromancer is different enough that it should really have a fully class. If Artificer has a spell list then Necromancer can too. Sub-classes can operate on tags and/or lists.

personally disagree, sure it's a strong concept but i don't think it's enough to support an entire class off of.

Simply removing the schools makes it so that design effort can be used on tags and spell lists instead. Wizard subclasses can then work with concepts instead of the schools. Not to mention how much less awkward it makes creating new (arcane-style) magic-using classes.

i do think we could gain something from applying some 4e style tags to the spells

 

[Golroc]

Trying to explain to new players what the schools are about is also an exercise in frustration. "Evocation? Abjuration? Eh, ok - where is the fire magic? No.. ? Ok, is there something for mental / mind magic then? Enchantment, you say? Ok, I guess..."

The schools are not even fully verb-based, because necromancy is "nasty stuff" and a lot of spells have their identity so heavily on the 'noun' side of the verb-noun spell model.

Players that don't have a connection to the history of D&D magic (and some that do) look for archetypes that don't exist in this magic system. And that's also how we got the Artificer, Sorcerer and Warlock. From the early days of the game designers so often struggled to encompass the traditional eight schools and more useful and interesting concepts. We've had Elemental Magic, Wild Magic, Spellfire, Shadow Weave and more.

At this point it really feels like the designers are (by their own volition or commercial decisions) stuck with making minor tweaks to 5th edition. Wizard is a class that really suffers (creatively, not power-wise) from this stagnation.

 

[Kurotowa]

I don't think the evoker has any identity. It's the boring subclass for casual players like the life cleric and the champion.

DM: What kind of wizard do you want to be?
Player: I dunno, someone who blasts things?

Don't crap on casual players. There are more of them than everyone else put together. Also, just because someone doesn't want to optimize doesn't mean they're casual. Sometimes you just want to be Lina Inverse and blow stuff up. Blowing stuff up is fun.

 

[fuindordm]

Don't crap on casual players. There are more of them than everyone else put together. Also, just because someone doesn't want to optimize doesn't mean they're casual. Sometimes you just want to be Lina Inverse and blow stuff up. Blowing stuff up is fun.

I do my very best to be a good DM to casual players, even the ones who can't be bothered to read the PH.
I just think they deserve something cooler (in name and abilities) than "evoker".
The War Mage is 10x better.

 

[cbwjm]

Don't crap on casual players. There are more of them than everyone else put together. Also, just because someone doesn't want to optimize doesn't mean they're casual. Sometimes you just want to be Lina Inverse and blow stuff up. Blowing stuff up is fun.

This is a large part of why so many love the fighter, they just want a simple "I hit things" class.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Don't crap on casual players.

It'd be nice if people didn't use them and new as a catspaw to enforce their own agenda on the game.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'd like a Hedge Mage, the conjurer of cheap tricks, the wizard school dropout.

That is a great archetype that, as far as I know, isn't offered in any published subclass.

Kobold Press sort of has this in their Cities & Towns Campaign Builder, but that's specifically a street magician hustling people with magical card tricks and the like.