I want to get rid of turning what should I give clerics and paladins

[Ace]

Well the subject says it all.

In order to make undead scarier in my next campaign i would like to drop the turning ability from clerics and paladins.

I will have some repel unded type spells but I would like to replace turning with something domain related.

My two thought s on the matter was to allow spontaneous casting for clerics and an extra domain but i am not sure yet.

What do you all think?

 

[Frostmarrow]

You could try to scale turning down. Now, when you successfully turn undead the undead flee or are destroyed. I suggest the result becomes the undead can't come closer to the cleric than 30' or the undead flee, respectively. You need to keep turning each round or the undead will advance. Each round's worth of turning counts as a turning check against the times per day limit.

 

[Cabral]

Instead of dropping it, how about altering it? Turning Undead is channeling positive energy (or negative energy for rebuking undead) to a specific purpose. If you take away the purpose, you could leave clerics and paldins with the ability to channel positive or negative energy. The result could be either a 1d6 per cleric turning level+charisma modifier positive energy touch attack (duration: until discharged) or a ray (range: 60 feet) that deals 1d6 per 2 cleric turning levels + charisma modifier positive energy damage.

Positive energy damage damages undead and heals other creatures.

That way the cleric/paladin can still use the Defender's of the Faith feats and it is hopefully of the same power level as the turning ability.

Normally if the cleric's level is twice the Undead's Hit Dice, the Undead is destroyed. Since Unead have a die type of d12, that is about as potent on average as a 1d12/per 2 level attack that affects a group ... even though it only affects undead, that's a bit much for a first level character and it goes against what you are trying to accomplish. Hopefully the ability to use the positive energy to heal doesn't offset the decrease in effectiveness against Undead so much that it increase the cleric's/paladin's power ... If you decide to use this, you may or may not want to remove the cleric's ability to spontaneously cast cure spells.

 

[Ace]

You could try to scale turning down. Now, when you successfully turn undead the undead flee or are destroyed. I suggest the result becomes the undead can't come closer to the cleric than 30' or the undead flee, respectively. You need to keep turning each round or the undead will advance. Each round's worth of turning counts as a turning check against the times per day limit.

Thats not a bad suggestion.
I was thinking something along the Ravenloft lines at one point myself.
I'll consider your idea though. Thats isn't much power but it is a little and might fit the mood pretty well.
Clerics and Paladins still get hosed a bit however. Any suggestions for bonuses to even things out?

 

[graydoom]

If you want to completely replace undead turning, you could simply increase spell progression (and possibily domain spell progression too).

 

[Artoomis]

If you do the focus positive/negative energy for hit point damage (vs. the appropaite creatures only, of coiurse) instead of turning thing and think it's underpowered, give them a free Divine feat. That should even things out nicely.